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scottinaz
04-15-2010, 09:31 PM
National Day Of Prayer 2010: Federal Judge Rules Unconstitutional

TODD RICHMOND | 04/15/10 07:56 PM

MADISON, Wis. — A federal judge in Wisconsin ruled the National Day of Prayer unconstitutional Thursday, saying the day amounts to a call for religious action.

U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb wrote that the government can no more enact laws supporting a day of prayer than it can encourage citizens to fast during Ramadan, attend a synagogue or practice magic.

"In fact, it is because the nature of prayer is so personal and can have such a powerful effect on a community that the government may not use its authority to try to influence an individual's decision whether and when to pray," Crabb wrote.

Congress established the day in 1952 and in 1988 set the first Thursday in May as the day for presidents to issue proclamations asking Americans to pray. The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Madison-based group of atheists and agnostics, filed a lawsuit against the federal government in 2008 arguing the day violated the separation of church and state.

President Barack Obama's administration has countered that the statute simply acknowledges the role of religion in the United States. Obama issued a proclamation last year but did not hold public events with religious leaders as former President George W. Bush had done.

Crabb wrote that her ruling shouldn't be considered a bar to any prayer days until all appeals are exhausted. U.S. Justice Department attorneys who represented the federal government in the case were reviewing the ruling Thursday afternoon, agency spokesman Charles Miller said. He declined further comment.

Obama spokesman Matt Lehrich said in an e-mail to The Associated Press the president still plans to issue a proclamation for the next prayer day.

"As he did last year, President Obama intends to recognize a National Day of Prayer," Lehrich said.

The American Center for Law and Justice, which filed a friend of the court brief supporting the government on behalf of 31 members of Congress, called Crabb's ruling flawed and promised to back an appeal if one is filed.
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"It is unfortunate that this court failed to understand that a day set aside for prayer for the country represents a time-honored tradition that embraces the First Amendment, not violates it," ACLJ Chief Counsel Jay Sekulow said in a statement.

The Alliance Defense Fund, an Arizona-based group of Christian lawyers, issued a statement saying Crabb's ruling undermines American tradition dating back to the nation's birth.

Freedom From Religion Foundation attorney Richard Bolton didn't immediately return a message seeking comment.

Crabb wrote that her ruling was not a judgment on the value of prayer. She noted government involvement in prayer may be constitutional if the conduct serves a "significant secular purpose" and doesn't amount to a call for religious action. But the National Day of Prayer crosses that line, she wrote.

"It goes beyond mere 'acknowledgment' of religion because its sole purpose is to encourage all citizens to engage in prayer, an inherently religious exercise that serves no secular function in this context," she wrote. "In this instance, the government has taken sides on a matter that must be left to individual conscience."

(This version CORRECTS that the American Center for Law and Justice filed a brief in the case but did not represent defendants and will join an appeal but cannot file one by itself.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/15/national-day-of-prayer-ru_n_539549.html

Nunyabiz
04-16-2010, 08:13 AM
Of course it's unconstitutional but because of the taboo in soceity about religion the law will be ignored as usual.

Redv14
04-17-2010, 12:55 PM
Of course it's unconstitutional but because of the taboo in soceity about religion the law will be ignored as usual.

I'm hoping that this ruling will stick and will be upheld if it goes to the Supreme Court. By havig a national day of prayer the government is promoting belief in God and religion which is clearly dangerous and definitely should be prohibited.

Sharee
04-17-2010, 01:38 PM
I'm hoping that this ruling will stick and will be upheld if it goes to the Supreme Court. By havig a national day of prayer the government is promoting belief in God and religion which is clearly dangerous and definitely should be prohibited.
obviously I disagree with the " dangerous" remark , though I do agree there does not need to be a pray day . Actually I see little difference in this and celebrating all the religious holidays .I just happen to think that prayer is a personal , private thing that doesn't need to put on display .

Redv14
04-17-2010, 03:31 PM
obviously I disagree with the " dangerous" remark , though I do agree there does not need to be a pray day . Actually I see little difference in this and celebrating all the religious holidays .I just happen to think that prayer is a personal , private thing that doesn't need to put on display .

I don't think that having the president issue a proclamation asking Americans to pray is quite the same as celebrating religious holidays like Easter and Christmas. People are not asked in a formal way to participate in those holidays as they are with this national day of prayer. I think that it is dangerous for any government to in any way instruct or influence the people as to how they practice their religion given what we know about countries like Saudi Arabia.

Sharee
04-17-2010, 04:12 PM
I don't think that having the president issue a proclamation asking Americans to pray is quite the same as celebrating religious holidays like Easter and Christmas. People are not asked in a formal way to participate in those holidays as they are with this national day of prayer. I think that it is dangerous for any government to in any way instruct or influence the people as to how they practice their religion given what we know about countries like Saudi Arabia.
Is Christmas not a holiday in your country ? If indeed it is , then the government has already involved itself it the practice of influencing the public . I personally disagree with holidays that are religious based and like I've said a day of prayer is just as wrong but I can't see the dangerous aspect . As for Saudi Arabia , IMO that has little to do with religion and more to do with power and control , religion just happens to be the chosen tool .

Nunyabiz
04-17-2010, 07:12 PM
Is Christmas not a holiday in your country ? If indeed it is , then the government has already involved itself it the practice of influencing the public . I personally disagree with holidays that are religious based and like I've said a day of prayer is just as wrong but I can't see the dangerous aspect . As for Saudi Arabia , IMO that has little to do with religion and more to do with power and control , religion just happens to be the chosen tool .

Odd how you can separate the two so easily.

That is all religion is and ever has been is a tool used to control the masses. To justify any and all atrocities.
Nothing is more dangerous than religion.

Sharee
04-17-2010, 07:34 PM
Odd how you can separate the two so easily.

That is all religion is and ever has been is a tool used to control the masses. To justify any and all atrocities.
Nothing is more dangerous than religion.
it is actually pretty easy to separate the two when while I know that religion is a tool for power and control ,it is still just that , a tool . Like a gun , it is the person using that tool who determines the how it is to be used , whether it is for something harmful or useful .

Nunyabiz
04-18-2010, 10:39 AM
it is actually pretty easy to separate the two when while I know that religion is a tool for power and control ,it is still just that , a tool . Like a gun , it is the person using that tool who determines the how it is to be used , whether it is for something harmful or useful .

Sadly the persons using that tool are mostly all indoctrinated/brain washed to the point of a delusional psychosis to whole heatedly believe something that is not only false by utterly ridiculous.

P.Allen
04-18-2010, 11:45 AM
it is actually pretty easy to separate the two when while I know that religion is a tool for power and control ,it is still just that , a tool . Like a gun , it is the person using that tool who determines the how it is to be used , whether it is for something harmful or useful .

This is weird, I kinda agree with both of you !! Some very terrible and dangerous things have been done in the name of religion. but everything in life is a tool. and on a lighter side I know this because my husband is a painter and sculptor.When he paints ( homes) it is truly beautiful down to every detail. and all along, before I met him I thought I could paint !!! lol NOT SO GOOD . people can pray all they want, or not, just because the government says well have a national day doesn't mean you have to pray,maybe there should be a national atheist day.Like who really cares isn't that what makes us free people? Please don't Yell I'm wishy-washy today.

Sadanie
04-18-2010, 11:52 AM
This is weird, I kinda agree with both of you !! Some very terrible and dangerous things have been done in the name of religion. but everything in life is a tool. and on a lighter side I know this because my husband is a painter and sculptor.When he paints ( homes) it is truly beautiful down to every detail. and all along, before I met him I thought I could paint !!! lol NOT SO GOOD . people can pray all they want, or not, just because the government says well have a national day doesn't mean you have to pray,maybe there should be a national atheist day.Like who really cares isn't that what makes us free people? Please don't Yell I'm wishy-washy today.


I don't think that's wishy-washy!!! I think you make a lot of sense! I agree that a day of prayer shouldn't be made into a political statement one way or another, and doesn't force anyone to pray. . .And I wouldn't find anything wrong with an atheist day. . .that wouldn't oblige peole NOT to pray either. . . if they wanted to!
Why can't everyone just relax a little! And. . .tools CAN be used for both constructive and destructive projects. . .it's all up to us!

Nunyabiz
04-18-2010, 01:44 PM
Simple fact is that a "day of prayer" is without any question unconstitutional. All we need is for the religious zealots to stop breaking the law. This is a secular nation and always has been.