Stem cell research on the way!

[BUSHED]

Sorry George Bush is Jealous nobody wants to research his stem cells, we are seeking the greater gift of education through study and knoweledge of Science.

Thou Bush family member might have benefitted greatly from stem cell research if he had of allowed it.

The lady Senator from Missouri is also more qualified to be President than BUSH EVER WAS !


Got news for you ladies your embryo's aren't human life till male sperm penetrates them. The heat of sperm greatly decides if the embryo develope into a male or female, if you become pregnant in summer odds are be a girl, if impregnated in winter odds favor a boy, but also depends on temp of males work enviorment scientific fact.

[astrolite1]

President Obama signed it in this morning. I think it is a very good thing.

Blessings,

Lite
author of Common Sense For the Soul

[BUSHED]

Again we can warp into a new frontier, SPOC WARP IT, WARP IT NOW, flame the BUSH with warp drive... to the UNKOWN WITHOUT FEAR WHERE BRAVE RUN FREELY... hopefully with proper restraint, of past ill weighs.

Yes its good news, again philosphy, Politics and Education are trying to leave no babe behind...

Greetings Astro hows your day going ?

[HighlandWarrior]

As a person who's dad passed due to ALS aka Lou Gerigh's Disease and mother passed from Alzheimer's I think it is a good thing.

[sallyanne]

Sorry George Bush is Jealous nobody wants to research his stem cells, we are seeking the greater gift of education through study and knoweledge of Science.

Thou Bush family member might have benefitted greatly from stem cell research if he had of allowed it.

The lady Senator from Missouri is also more qualified to be President than BUSH EVER WAS !


Got news for you ladies your embryo's aren't human life till male sperm penetrates them. The heat of sperm greatly decides if the embryo develope into a male or female, if you become pregnant in summer odds are be a girl, if impregnated in winter odds favor a boy, but also depends on temp of males work enviorment scientific fact.
Saw on CNN the other night that Canadian researchers have made a breakthrough in adult stem cell research . Pretty soon there will be no need for embryonic stem cells and the argument against it will be moot.

[gabby]

Why do we need to destroy human life when there are viable alternatives other then using embryonic stem cells..? Why should our tax dollars go to fund such research?

Maybe the secular progressive liberals don't have a problem with destroying human embryo's but I find it immoral and unethical especially when there are viable alternative's.

http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/media_myths.html

[Nunyabiz]

Why do we need to destroy human life when there are viable alternatives other then using embryonic stem cells..? Why should our tax dollars go to fund such research?

Maybe the secular progressive liberals don't have a problem with destroying human embryo's but I find it immoral and unethical especially when there are viable alternative's.

http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/media_myths.html


Because the embryos they use are NOT viable human life.
An embryo does not become sentient until about 23 weeks.
The "cells" they use are only grown for a few days.
not to mention most of the eggs used are left over from invitro that are going to be thrown away.

this whole argument is moot, always has been.

Maybe the nutty Christians don't have a problem with ADULTS dying everyday from disease and ailments that possibly could be prevented or cured by advancements in stem cell research but I find it immoral and unethical especially when there are viable alternative's.

[graceland]

Why shouldn't we spend money on research? To save millions of people that's why

and if we don't isn't this worse than abortion because the people than will be saved and benefit from this are already alive!

and embryos are not alive anyway!

Anyway that is my opinion,and could save human lives.

[gabby]

Religion like Politics are a very touchy subject. For me life begins at conception. So far there have been no cures from embryonic stem cell research. There are many viable alternatives to using embryo's for research. I've posted again a link to a page that show's some of the alternative's.



http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/media_myths.html

http://www.lifecharity.org.uk/education/reprotechhttp://www.lifecharity.org.uk/education/reprotech

[BUSHED]

Canadaians with adult stim cells, well thats debateable they hired W to come there and lie.


you might also want listen or read up difference of adult and embryo.

Just so you know facts Blue Whales are breeding with other whales of same size, also Polar bears and grizzleys are mateing, according to latest DNA research by scientest. Some Believe thats due to global warming....global warming difs in weather be gradual, some are wondering if weight change on north and south poles by ice melting cause a equator shift or angle of rotation to change, if you prefer.

also as lot of Catholics are upset at Pope, you might read and check on who Gerald Casey was, and who he predicted the last Pope would be...


just some stuff to let gnaw your skulls empty voids...

[taylor marie]

Religion like Politics are a very touchy subject. For me life begins at conception. So far there have been no cures from embryonic stem cell research. There are many viable alternatives to using embryo's for research. I've posted again a link to a page that show's some of the alternative's.

My understanding from today's news is that the embryos are the "left overs" from IVF that would be otherwise be discarded. That doesn't really change things for those who feel like Gabby (and me) that life begins at conception......when you've heard a heartbeat at 10 weeks' gestation and have seen a fetus noving around at 13 weeks, it's hard to feel otherwise. But I also think there's value to exisiting life, and embryonic stem cells can lead to cures for some very horrible diseases, so I'd rather see the embryos used for good than destroyed.

[BUSHED]

Never heard a heart beat in petree dish 10 weeks old, is ok if fill out my organ donor card or is that agaisnt conservatives now values.

if you want we'll clone another one of you so you won't be missed by you... excuse me on way to my labrotory to cook some rats, for dinner. Is it ok to kill a 9 year old girl raped by her dad, to save babies the pope thinks so, Ok by me if you donate a egg for embryo growth but thought most parents wanted scientest and doctors doing great things for humanity.

so kill this cat as you don't like my purrr.......

[Nunyabiz]

Religion like Politics are a very touchy subject. For me life begins at conception. So far there have been no cures from embryonic stem cell research. There are many viable alternatives to using embryo's for research. I've posted again a link to a page that show's some of the alternative's.



http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/media_myths.html

http://www.lifecharity.org.uk/education/reprotechhttp://www.lifecharity.org.uk/education/reprotech

You can not compare embryonic stem cell research to adult because adult research has been on going for 40 years while embryonic on since 1998 and most of that with little to no funding because of lunatic Christians that have zero idea of what they are talking about deciding to deny funding based purely on "belief".

Life does NOT begin at conception, PERIOD there is absolutely no evidence to support that "belief" at all.

Stem cell research holds some of the most promising possibilities in all of medicine.
I would say almost without question that stem cell research within the next 20 years will yield cures for Diabetes, Parkinson's and many other horrible diseases that have plagued mankind.
To not pursue this 100% would literally be criminal, especially if not pursuing it is based solely of religious stupidity.

[BUSHED]

Nunyabiz again neo cons going holly'er than thou... as usual sore loosers...

as gifts for Humanity upset them. I Hope they, discover something soon, for the TROOPS.

[HighlandWarrior]

Because the embryos they use are NOT viable human life.
An embryo does not become sentient until about 23 weeks.
The "cells" they use are only grown for a few days.
not to mention most of the eggs used are left over from invitro that are going to be thrown away.

this whole argument is moot, always has been.

Maybe the nutty Christians don't have a problem with ADULTS dying everyday from disease and ailments that possibly could be prevented or cured by advancements in stem cell research but I find it immoral and unethical especially when there are viable alternative's.

You just can't disagree and be respectful can you? I happen to be a Christian and I said I was for it.

[sallyanne]

Canadaians with adult stim cells, well thats debateable they hired W to come there and lie.


you might also want listen or read up difference of adult and embryo.

Just so you know facts Blue Whales are breeding with other whales of same size, also Polar bears and grizzleys are mateing, according to latest DNA research by scientest. Some Believe thats due to global warming....global warming difs in weather be gradual, some are wondering if weight change on north and south poles by ice melting cause a equator shift or angle of rotation to change, if you prefer.

also as lot of Catholics are upset at Pope, you might read and check on who Gerald Casey was, and who he predicted the last Pope would be...


just some stuff to let gnaw your skulls empty voids...
As the offspring of a Canadian I take exception to this , it is not debatable ,it's a fact and as far as Bush being invited to Canada ,it just goes to show that every country , including our own ,has a small section of the public with poor judgement . As for the rest I am certainly aware of what an embryo is and where the cells are extracted .

[HighlandWarrior]

Because the embryos they use are NOT viable human life.
An embryo does not become sentient until about 23 weeks.
The "cells" they use are only grown for a few days.
not to mention most of the eggs used are left over from invitro that are going to be thrown away.

this whole argument is moot, always has been.

Maybe the nutty Christians don't have a problem with ADULTS dying everyday from disease and ailments that possibly could be prevented or cured by advancements in stem cell research but I find it immoral and unethical especially when there are viable alternative's.

You just can't resist attacking Christians can you. Do all scientists think the same, agree on everything ? I am a Christian and I am for it. You would think that a guy with your "alleged" intellect would be able to disagree without using descriptions like "nutty Christians".

[BUSHED]

so HIMAN you a nutty Christian or for stim cell research, see as we try to not to leave you behind you stay twisted in neo con thinking.

[HighlandWarrior]

Once again with the HIMAN stuff Bushwacker. Tell me what exactly are my "neo con " beliefs. Try to do it without talking in riddles.

[BUSHED]

You want to change HIMAN, GET UNTWISTED ! YES YOU CAN !

Only been fifty days and your complaing, accept the condition your in, in a mess of FIASCO conditions arranged in MADNESS of BUSH Cheney Haliburton KBR Lawyers & Co.

YES I LIKE BUSHWHACKING NEO CONS ! :) Thank you glad you noticed !!!

[HighlandWarrior]

Well what are my neo-con beliefs BUSHWACK ?

[Nunyabiz]

You just can't resist attacking Christians can you. Do all scientists think the same, agree on everything ? I am a Christian and I am for it. You would think that a guy with your "alleged" intellect would be able to disagree without using descriptions like "nutty Christians".


didn't say "every" christian in the world, but the ONLY ones objecting to stem cell research ARE Christian.

[Sadanie]

You can not compare embryonic stem cell research to adult because adult research has been on going for 40 years while embryonic on since 1998 and most of that with little to no funding because of lunatic Christians that have zero idea of what they are talking about deciding to deny funding based purely on "belief".

Life does NOT begin at conception, PERIOD there is absolutely no evidence to support that "belief" at all.

Stem cell research holds some of the most promising possibilities in all of medicine.
I would say almost without question that stem cell research within the next 20 years will yield cures for Diabetes, Parkinson's and many other horrible diseases that have plagued mankind.
To not pursue this 100% would literally be criminal, especially if not pursuing it is based solely of religious stupidity.

Well, I'm not sure about life beginning at conception! In fact, I believe that "life" begin at conception, but not "humanity," "soul," and none of the things (other than physical elements) that make us HUMAN.
So, if "life" without "humanity" begin at conception and that is what is so precious. . .why do we not bother with ALL life, including animal life? In my opinion, it is what makes us human that is really precious and needs to be protected. Although I certainly disagree with experimenting on animals at anytime, at least for "marketing" reasons.
I believe that if stem cell research (and I don't know much about it) truly has the potential to provide a better life for already existing people, and if embryos would be otherwise wasted, why not use them?

[BUSHED]

Well what are my neo-con beliefs BUSHWACK ?

well lets see BUSHWHACK, ok you over stuffed sack steriod meat, you sound NEO CON Republican enough to me. How's that ?

PS I prefer BUSHWHACKY ! :)

[taylor marie]

I believe that if stem cell research (and I don't know much about it) truly has the potential to provide a better life for already existing people, and if embryos would be otherwise wasted, why not use them?

I tried to say this earlier in the thread, but was misunderstood. You said it better - Embryos that would otherwise be destroyed should be used for this research, and putting an arbitrary date on the matter, which is what Bush was forced to do to placate the Christian wing of his party, is nonsensical.

Also, even if one believes an embryo is a life doesn't justify effectively hurting another life (one who has a disease that could be cured with this technology as well as future sufferers of the disease); the religious right is choosing one life over another. I think Obama made the right decision.

[HighlandWarrior]

Why do you confine Christians to the right wing. Many Christian Democrats voted against the gays right to marry in California.

[BUSHED]

I say to you the CONSERVATIVES now in power think the Christians agree with them ?

Do you know word moderate, is it in there vocabulary or twisted as what they think conservative is now ?


As McCain went to Fallwell bible study group to try vand learn how to and be able to talk to Christians. Fallwells past was bias RNC to what the consevatives now in power think, as he also supported W.

[HighlandWarrior]

The same could be said about Rev. Wright's bias and Obama.

[astrolite1]

<snip>


just some stuff to let gnaw your skulls empty voids...


If you do not have something nice to say or type, then DON'T TYPE IT.

thank you,

Lite
TVAlly Moderator

2nd soft warn

[BUSHED]

OK sorry they need education, maybe if Bush was educator not a dictator, seems to be lot Reagan poltic'n here...CHANGE YES WE CAN !


President Obama reversed Bush's stim cell, thou was easy he only had one. Seems meo cons going green with envy !:D

[nomorehistory]

Most doctors will tell you that life does start at conception and the nucleus is there. It coordinates the cells activities which includes growth and reproduction.

[Nunyabiz]

Most doctors will tell you that life does start at conception and the nucleus is there. It coordinates the cells activities which includes growth and reproduction.

Totally false, sorry that is just religious propaganda and not scientific in any way.
Most doctors say that sentient life does not begin until brain activity begins which is well after 3 months.

It is precisely the same as "When Life is Considered at it's END" and that is with "Brain Death".

No Brain = No Life, plain and simple.

Only doctors that agree with the life begins with conception dogma are those taking their information from the Pulpit and completely disregarding scientific knowledge.

[Redv14]

Why do we need to destroy human life when there are viable alternatives other then using embryonic stem cells..? Why should our tax dollars go to fund such research?

Maybe the secular progressive liberals don't have a problem with destroying human embryo's but I find it immoral and unethical especially when there are viable alternative's.

http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/media_myths.html

Human life is not destroyed when stem cells are used. Stem cells can develop into many different cell types in the body. They actually serve as a kind of repair service for the body. They continue to live but their function is changed in that they can become needed brain cells, muscle cells, blood cells, etc.

[nomorehistory]

Totally false, sorry that is just religious propaganda and not scientific in any way.
Most doctors say that sentient life does not begin until brain activity begins which is well after 3 months.

It is precisely the same as "When Life is Considered at it's END" and that is with "Brain Death".

No Brain = No Life, plain and simple.

Only doctors that agree with the life begins with conception dogma are those taking their information from the Pulpit and completely disregarding scientific knowledge.

Correct, they are not athiests.

[Nunyabiz]

Correct, they are not athiests.

Which means they use scientific knowledge instead of religious dogma to decide scientific questions.
What a novel idea.

[Awenasa]

In terms of biology and human embryology, a human being begins immediately at fertilization.

Spin it anyway you want but it takes an appalling rejection of science and biology to deny the humanity of the human embryo.

[Nunyabiz]

In terms of biology and human embryology, a human being begins immediately at fertilization.

Spin it anyway you want but it takes an appalling rejection of science and biology to deny the humanity of the human embryo.

You are the one "spinning" not I.

I follow basic biology.
No brain = no sentient human life.

This is why at brain death a person is considered DEAD even though the body may still breathe (with help) and other organs function (on a machine).

You get your information directly from the pulpit from people that have no idea what they are talking about just what they want to "believe".

A human embryo has zero brain function until well past the 3rd month.
No brain = no life.

Embryo's used in research are never more than 14 days old and are nothing but a clump of cells.


I think this is a pretty good analogy.

"During a discussion of stem cell research that took place while I was serving on President Bush’s bioethics council, I made an analogy comparing embryos created for stem cell research to a Home Depot. You don’t walk into a Home Depot and see thirty houses. You see materials that need architects, carpenters, electricians, and plumbers to create a house. An egg and a sperm are not a human. A fertilized embryo is not a human—it needs a uterus, and at least six months of gestation and development, growth and neuron formation, and cell duplication to become a human. To give an embryo created for biomedical research the same status even as one created for in vitro fertilization (IVF), let alone one created naturally, is patently absurd. When a Home Depot burns down, the headline in the paper is not “30 Houses Burn Down.” It is “Home Depot Burned Down.”

http://www.dana.org/news/cerebrum/detail.aspx?id=774

[BUSHED]

Was the Embryo's in home depote or still in owners of thirty houses awaiting to be donated... HOLLY SMOKE !

Hope there safe in there peetree dish's science neeeds them !:eek:

Quite useing scare tactics you terrorists !

[sallyanne]

You are the one "spinning" not I.

I follow basic biology.
No brain = no sentient human life.

This is why at brain death a person is considered DEAD even though the body may still breathe (with help) and other organs function (on a machine).

You get your information directly from the pulpit from people that have no idea what they are talking about just what they want to "believe".

A human embryo has zero brain function until well past the 3rd month.
No brain = no life.

Embryo's used in research are never more than 14 days old and are nothing but a clump of cells.


I think this is a pretty good analogy.

"During a discussion of stem cell research that took place while I was serving on President Bush’s bioethics council, I made an analogy comparing embryos created for stem cell research to a Home Depot. You don’t walk into a Home Depot and see thirty houses. You see materials that need architects, carpenters, electricians, and plumbers to create a house. An egg and a sperm are not a human. A fertilized embryo is not a human—it needs a uterus, and at least six months of gestation and development, growth and neuron formation, and cell duplication to become a human. To give an embryo created for biomedical research the same status even as one created for in vitro fertilization (IVF), let alone one created naturally, is patently absurd. When a Home Depot burns down, the headline in the paper is not “30 Houses Burn Down.” It is “Home Depot Burned Down.”

http://www.dana.org/news/cerebrum/detail.aspx?id=774
I read Awenasa's post and no where in it was there any mention of religion or reference to it anywhere . Your rhetoric is sounding almost as bad as the bible thumpers you obviously despise .

[sallyanne]

Totally false, sorry that is just religious propaganda and not scientific in any way.
Most doctors say that sentient life does not begin until brain activity begins which is well after 3 months.

It is precisely the same as "When Life is Considered at it's END" and that is with "Brain Death".

No Brain = No Life, plain and simple.

Only doctors that agree with the life begins with conception dogma are those taking their information from the Pulpit and completely disregarding scientific knowledge.
In the New England Journal of Medicine doctors have recently stated that because of the many cases hitting the media of patients pronounced " brain dead" and living to tell their stories they have decided to come out and state that brain death and cardiac death are invalid criteria for true death. Case in point a patient in France was undergoing organ retrieval when the person revived .I guess this was an incident where , no brain activity = doctors and scientists are human , which can = mistakes.

[Nunyabiz]

In the New England Journal of Medicine doctors have recently stated that because of the many cases hitting the media of patients pronounced " brain dead" and living to tell their stories they have decided to come out and state that brain death and cardiac death are invalid criteria for true death. Case in point a patient in France was undergoing organ retrieval when the person revived .I guess this was an incident where , no brain activity = doctors and scientists are human , which can = mistakes.

The hospital in question needs to be investigated because they obviously made a purposeful misdiagnoses most likely in order to "harvest organs" in order to make a few hundred thousand $$.

People that are actually "Brain Dead" do not ever revive and they can not breathe on their own so they are not going to magically wake up like they were in a coma.

I am not talking about somebody misdiagnosing brain death I am talking about actual brain death.

[sallyanne]

The hospital in question needs to be investigated because they obviously made a purposeful misdiagnoses most likely in order to "harvest organs" in order to make a few hundred thousand $$.

People that are actually "Brain Dead" do not ever revive and they can not breathe on their own so they are not going to magically wake up like they were in a coma.

I am not talking about somebody misdiagnosing brain death I am talking about actual brain death.
It is the doctor's place to decide who is brain dead and it is the doctors who take these organs so we can not always trust that one will not influence the other , as I said the criteria has to change as well a the term.

[Sadanie]

Why do you confine Christians to the right wing. Many Christian Democrats voted against the gays right to marry in California.
Yes, but you can't account for stupidity and prejudice.
I believe that if every person on this earth actually KNEW a gay couple, had a chance to talk with them about any subject (other than their sexuality, because that would be too explosive) and connect with them about their daily life, their aspirations, their hopes, their loved ones, this kind of prejudice would end.
I had a chance to have dinner with one of those couples last night. They have been together for 28 years, they are in their sixties. And all they want is to end their life together and to be recognized as a couple in the eyes of everyone!
If the gay couples cannot marry, their union should at least be recognized on par with heterosexual couples by the State.
The word "mariage" should then be given its true meaning of "religious union" and the "civil union" should be the one that respect the laws of the people.
Most countries already does that. . .In Europe, for a union to be legal couples (yes, that means heterosexual as well) MUST marry in front of the Judge of the peace. Then, if they choose, they can have a SECOND ceremony (either the same day, in a different place, or even weeks or years apart) if they choose to be married in a Church or by a minister. The two do not mix. And the minister, priest, or religious marriage IS NOT recognized by the State unless a CIVIL UNION has been performed first.
Wouldn't that make sense in a Country that claim there is a separation of Church and State???

[sallyanne]

Yes, but you can't account for stupidity and prejudice.
I believe that if every person on this earth actually KNEW a gay couple, had a chance to talk with them about any subject (other than their sexuality, because that would be too explosive) and connect with them about their daily life, their aspirations, their hopes, their loved ones, this kind of prejudice would end.
I had a chance to have dinner with one of those couples last night. They have been together for 28 years, they are in their sixties. And all they want is to end their life together and to be recognized as a couple in the eyes of everyone!
If the gay couples cannot marry, their union should at least be recognized on par with heterosexual couples by the State.
The word "mariage" should then be given its true meaning of "religious union" and the "civil union" should be the one that respect the laws of the people.
Most countries already does that. . .In Europe, for a union to be legal couples (yes, that means heterosexual as well) MUST marry in front of the Judge of the peace. Then, if they choose, they can have a SECOND ceremony (either the same day, in a different place, or even weeks or years apart) if they choose to be married in a Church or by a minister. The two do not mix. And the minister, priest, or religious marriage IS NOT recognized by the State unless a CIVIL UNION has been performed first.
Wouldn't that make sense in a Country that claim there is a separation of Church and State???
I find it odd that people who object to gay marriage find it ok for them to live together .To that way of thinking , why would any union be all right .I just think that this is just an extremely hypocritical way of thinking ,with not an ounce of logic.

[Nunyabiz]

I find it odd that people who object to gay marriage find it ok for them to live together .To that way of thinking , why would any union be all right .I just think that this is just an extremely hypocritical way of thinking ,with not an ounce of logic.

you are expecting "logic" from those that talk to their little invisible friend?

[BUSHED]

As some only have one, they can keep it, they need it...at least Bush got his stim cell reversed was about time, seems Republicans be for cloneing as thats about the only chance they have for getting more Republicans !

[Awenasa]

A "clump of cells"? Each of us as adults is a relatively large clump of cells.

[Awenasa]

There is consensus among virtually all human embryologists, worldwide. Every contemporary textbook of Human Embryology states that "the life of the new individual human being begins at fertilization"

[Nunyabiz]

A "clump of cells"? Each of us as adults is a relatively large clump of cells.

That small clump of cells can be frozen for years and then thawed out and used.
Lets freeze you and see what happens shall we?

[Nunyabiz]

There is consensus among virtually all human embryologists, worldwide. Every contemporary textbook of Human Embryology states that "the life of the new individual human being begins at fertilization"

Totally false, and no matter how many times you repeat the same BS isn't going to make it true.

[nomorehistory]

Totally false, and no matter how many times you repeat the same BS isn't going to make it true.

How are you going to make it true?

[prsnlgrth]

Sorry George Bush is Jealous nobody wants to research his stem cells, we are seeking the greater gift of education through study and knoweledge of Science.

Thou Bush family member might have benefitted greatly from stem cell research if he had of allowed it.

The lady Senator from Missouri is also more qualified to be President than BUSH EVER WAS !


Got news for you ladies your embryo's aren't human life till male sperm penetrates them. The heat of sperm greatly decides if the embryo develope into a male or female, if you become pregnant in summer odds are be a girl, if impregnated in winter odds favor a boy, but also depends on temp of males work enviorment scientific fact.

Funny as usual Bushed....
That's interesting and informative. I didn't know that. Where did you get this information. I'd like to know what the season has to do with the outcome of gender.

[prsnlgrth]

You can not compare embryonic stem cell research to adult because adult research has been on going for 40 years while embryonic on since 1998 and most of that with little to no funding because of lunatic Christians that have zero idea of what they are talking about deciding to deny funding based purely on "belief".

Life does NOT begin at conception, PERIOD there is absolutely no evidence to support that "belief" at all.

Stem cell research holds some of the most promising possibilities in all of medicine.
I would say almost without question that stem cell research within the next 20 years will yield cures for Diabetes, Parkinson's and many other horrible diseases that have plagued mankind.
To not pursue this 100% would literally be criminal, especially if not pursuing it is based solely of religious stupidity.

OK Nuns, I need to totally understand all this..I'm asking you because you are very detailed and fact oriented(although I may not always agree with your opinions, you do base them on facts).....I want the facts.... I believe life begins at conception; however, I've been under the impression that conception can only be when the sperm has fertilized the egg. Is that right? And isn't an embryo a unfertilized egg? Biology 101...

[prsnlgrth]

Totally false, sorry that is just religious propaganda and not scientific in any way.
Most doctors say that sentient life does not begin until brain activity begins which is well after 3 months.

It is precisely the same as "When Life is Considered at it's END" and that is with "Brain Death".

No Brain = No Life, plain and simple.

Only doctors that agree with the life begins with conception dogma are those taking their information from the Pulpit and completely disregarding scientific knowledge.

This is my humble opinion.....God is the creator of everything; therefore, everything he's done can be proven scientifically. You see he is an intelligent God....all things fit together. So the doctors beliefs should have nothing to do with any of this. He designed these bodies and made them work organ, tissue, muscle, blood, everything.
That's why it's so puzzling when I hear people talk.... even about creation...every single scientific theory doesn't dismiss any existence of God....don't you know he's the one that made science make sense.....well I'll have to come back later and clarify what I'm saying. Anyway science is a religion....
My bad I swayed slightly from the subject...... didn't I?
Any doctor who bases his professional facts on his belief is unethical....be it atheist, christian or otherwise.

[prsnlgrth]

Which means they use scientific knowledge instead of religious dogma to decide scientific questions.
What a novel idea.

ICA...with that being said....whatever the scientific results (which I'm going to research in addition to hearing your response to my post) it will indeed agree with what God says. That's a truth. B/C God himself can't contradict himself....which is impossible because anything he says will become truth. JMHO.
And if you want me to show you how....I will make that a personal goal...won't that be interesting.;)

[prsnlgrth]

In the New England Journal of Medicine doctors have recently stated that because of the many cases hitting the media of patients pronounced " brain dead" and living to tell their stories they have decided to come out and state that brain death and cardiac death are invalid criteria for true death. Case in point a patient in France was undergoing organ retrieval when the person revived .I guess this was an incident where , no brain activity = doctors and scientists are human , which can = mistakes.

Good post Sallyanne....
and/or God still performs miracles.:cool:

[prsnlgrth]

Yes, but you can't account for stupidity and prejudice.
I believe that if every person on this earth actually KNEW a gay couple, had a chance to talk with them about any subject (other than their sexuality, because that would be too explosive) and connect with them about their daily life, their aspirations, their hopes, their loved ones, this kind of prejudice would end.
I had a chance to have dinner with one of those couples last night. They have been together for 28 years, they are in their sixties. And all they want is to end their life together and to be recognized as a couple in the eyes of everyone!
If the gay couples cannot marry, their union should at least be recognized on par with heterosexual couples by the State.
The word "mariage" should then be given its true meaning of "religious union" and the "civil union" should be the one that respect the laws of the people.
Most countries already does that. . .In Europe, for a union to be legal couples (yes, that means heterosexual as well) MUST marry in front of the Judge of the peace. Then, if they choose, they can have a SECOND ceremony (either the same day, in a different place, or even weeks or years apart) if they choose to be married in a Church or by a minister. The two do not mix. And the minister, priest, or religious marriage IS NOT recognized by the State unless a CIVIL UNION has been performed first.
Wouldn't that make sense in a Country that claim there is a separation of Church and State???

I'm a christian and YES IT DOES. I too have had the opportunity of knowing gay couples and gay people; and I honestly love them. I'm torn in that homosexuality is a sin because I know the Bible is right so I honest believe what I've heard from them over and over....they were born that way....I don't think that God at all made any mistakes rather that mankind in his arrogant, supreme image of himself did something. I don't know what...who does? But we continue to tamper with things like food, medication etc...we don't know what we did to cause this to happen. JMHO once again.

[prsnlgrth]

you are expecting "logic" from those that talk to their little invisible friend?

Nun, that wasn't nice at all. Not to mention very insulting...don't do that.

[Nunyabiz]

OK Nuns, I need to totally understand all this..I'm asking you because you are very detailed and fact oriented(although I may not always agree with your opinions, you do base them on facts).....I want the facts.... I believe life begins at conception; however, I've been under the impression that conception can only be when the sperm has fertilized the egg. Is that right? And isn't an embryo a unfertilized egg? Biology 101...

Well number one this appears to be a slam on what Clinton said which she was partially correct.

I will try to remember best I can the process and remember this, what we are talking about in stem cell research is an egg that has "started" fertilization, goes through the "zygote" stage then after I believe its 3-5 days becomes a "Blastocyst" so far we are talking about just a few cells less than 50 if I remember correctly.
I know after about 3 days there are only about 16 cells.

Anyway at this point we do NOT even have an "Embryo" and there NEVER is any "implantation" which is when biological fertilization ends & actual "pregnancy" begins.
This is at about the 10th day which is after implantation.

Most stem cell labs only use "Blastocyst" cells that are less than 5 days old.
This stage BTW is when most natural pregnancy's self terminate as the Blastocyst never implants and is washed through the system.
(Should there be maybe a funeral at this point before the toilet is flushed since 100s of 1000s of these "children" are flushed down toilets every single day?)
Just for clarification this Blastocyst is this >.< big the size of that period.

Stem cell researchers take this Blastocyst remove the 30-50 or so cells and place them on a culture medium in a culture dish where they grow, they never form anything other than more stem cells and they replate batches of these cells and continue to grow them usually for several months until there are many millions of them these are "pluripotent" stem cells they are undifferentiated and can be used to grow into virtually any type of cell.

At no time are these cells a viable Embryo, there is no implantation, there are no vital organs, no brain, no nothing just a small clump of of about 30-50 cells.
The very same >.< little period size mass that flushes through women bodies around the world 100,000s of times every single day.

and "Embryo" is a "fully fertilized egg" (meaning past the point of Zygote & Blastocyst and then Implanted on the uterine wall ) this is after at least 10 days that is when you have an actual "Embryo" and then it is several weeks later before you could even consider this to be "sentient life".

[Nunyabiz]

I'm a christian and YES IT DOES. I too have had the opportunity of knowing gay couples and gay people; and I honestly love them. I'm torn in that homosexuality is a sin because I know the Bible is right so I honest believe what I've heard from them over and over....they were born that way....I don't think that God at all made any mistakes rather that mankind in his arrogant, supreme image of himself did something. I don't know what...who does? But we continue to tamper with things like food, medication etc...we don't know what we did to cause this to happen. JMHO once again.


Show me in the bible where is says the homosexuality is a sin.
Oh and since "the bible is always right" what about these sexual "sins" that are clearly stated in that same bible?

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.

Now lets get busy stoning about 98% of the entire planet because times a wasting.

[prsnlgrth]

Well number one this appears to be a slam on what Clinton said which she was partially correct.

I will try to remember best I can the process and remember this, what we are talking about in stem cell research is an egg that has "started" fertilization, goes through the "zygote" stage then after I believe its 3-5 days becomes a "Blastocyst" so far we are talking about just a few cells less than 50 if I remember correctly.
I know after about 3 days there are only about 16 cells.

Anyway at this point we do NOT even have an "Embryo" and there NEVER is any "implantation" which is when biological fertilization ends & actual "pregnancy" begins.
This is at about the 10th day which is after implantation.

Most stem cell labs only use "Blastocyst" cells that are less than 5 days old.
This stage BTW is when most natural pregnancy's self terminate as the Blastocyst never implants and is washed through the system.
(Should there be maybe a funeral at this point before the toilet is flushed since 100s of 1000s of these "children" are flushed down toilets every single day?)
Just for clarification this Blastocyst is this >.< big the size of that period.

Stem cell researchers take this Blastocyst remove the 30-50 or so cells and place them on a culture medium in a culture dish where they grow, they never form anything other than more stem cells and they replate batches of these cells and continue to grow them usually for several months until there are many millions of them these are "pluripotent" stem cells they are undifferentiated and can be used to grow into virtually any type of cell.

At no time are these cells a viable Embryo, there is no implantation, there are no vital organs, no brain, no nothing just a small clump of of about 30-50 cells.
The very same >.< little period size mass that flushes through women bodies around the world 100,000s of times every single day.

and "Embryo" is a "fully fertilized egg" (meaning past the point of Zygote & Blastocyst and then Implanted on the uterine wall ) this is after at least 10 days that is when you have an actual "Embryo" and then it is several weeks later before you could even consider this to be "sentient life".

So if they are only using the blastocyst.... what's the big deal? A blastocyst isn't even an embryo...so why is the embryo even being questioned? No fertilization....no life. The two must meet before any controversy can even be entertained.
Having that cleared up....I'm all for stem cell research...It'll save lives and no harm is being done...where is the moral/ethical dilemna? Or would that be in the theory of eventual cloning? Which I am totally opposed to...although they are already doing it with animals...and meat we consume. I'm thinking of becoming a vegetarian.(fish though)
My next question is...What's the freezing process of an embryo? Do they take the egg out of the woman, fertilize it and then freeze it. Of course now I'm asking about the embryos that Ocomom didn't want to destroy "human life".

[Nunyabiz]

So if they are only using the blastocyst.... what's the big deal? A blastocyst isn't even an embryo...so why is the embryo even being questioned? No fertilization....no life. The two must meet before any controversy can even be entertained.
Having that cleared up....I'm all for stem cell research...It'll save lives and no harm is being done...where is the moral/ethical dilemna? Or would that be in the theory of eventual cloning? Which I am totally opposed to...although they are already doing it with animals...and meat we consume. I'm thinking of becoming a vegetarian.(fish though)
My next question is...What's the freezing process of an embryo? Do they take the egg out of the woman, fertilize it and then freeze it. Of course now I'm asking about the embryos that Ocomom didn't want to destroy "human life".

There is no big deal, it is all basically made up by people that don't have a clue what they are talking about.

They take an egg, fertilize it until it reaches what I believe they call the 2PN stage which I think refers to the point where it shows two pronuclei only about 4-8 cells and then freeze it with liquid nitrogen.
There is about a 70% survival rate once thawed.

There are about 1/2 million of these frozen blastocyst just sitting in fertility clinics around the US that could either be donated to none fertile couples or used in research.

[prsnlgrth]

There is no big deal, it is all basically made up by people that don't have a clue what they are talking about.

They take an egg, fertilize it until it reaches what I believe they call the 2PN stage which I think refers to the point where it shows two pronuclei only about 4-8 cells and then freeze it with liquid nitrogen.
There is about a 70% survival rate once thawed.

There are about 1/2 million of these frozen blastocyst just sitting in fertility clinics around the US that could either be donated to none fertile couples or used in research.

Oh I see. Thank you...Now I can make an informed decision on where I stand.

[prsnlgrth]

Nun, is my understanding correct when I say we'll be using stem cells from those embryos destined for destruction?
Why are there be embryos just laying around anyway? They don't belong to anyone?

[Nunyabiz]

Nun, is my understanding correct when I say we'll be using stem cells from those embryos destined for destruction?
Why are there be embryos just laying around anyway? They don't belong to anyone?

They belong to the couples that donated the sperm & egg and those couples I believe pay something like $400-$600 a year to keep them frozen.
It is up to them to make the right decision, unfortunately that decision is clouded with bogus information they get from religious people that have no idea what they are talking about.

[prsnlgrth]

They belong to the couples that donated the sperm & egg and those couples I believe pay something like $400-$600 a year to keep them frozen.
It is up to them to make the right decision, unfortunately that decision is clouded with bogus information they get from religious people that have no idea what they are talking about.

If these couples are paying that much per year to keep them frozen where does the discarded ones come from? What decision are you talking about these couples have to make?

[Nunyabiz]

If these couples are paying that much per year to keep them frozen where does the discarded ones come from? What decision are you talking about these couples have to make?

Whether or not to donate them to other couples or to donate them to research or to just discard them obviously.
As far as some of the discarded ones I can only assume those are ones where couples stop paying the yearly fee's for various reasons.
Many of the egg and sperm donors have changed their address, got re-married and changed their name or perhaps even died. Fertility clinics may be unable to trace them.

[nomorehistory]

How are you going to make it true?

Apparently you didn't have an answer.

[nomorehistory]

Totally false, and no matter how many times you repeat the same BS isn't going to make it true.

How are you going to make it true??

[Nunyabiz]

How are you going to make it true??

Why should I answer a stupid question?

That is like asking the weather man why he doesn't stop it from raining.

[Sadanie]

Well number one this appears to be a slam on what Clinton said which she was partially correct.

I will try to remember best I can the process and remember this, what we are talking about in stem cell research is an egg that has "started" fertilization, goes through the "zygote" stage then after I believe its 3-5 days becomes a "Blastocyst" so far we are talking about just a few cells less than 50 if I remember correctly.
I know after about 3 days there are only about 16 cells.

Anyway at this point we do NOT even have an "Embryo" and there NEVER is any "implantation" which is when biological fertilization ends & actual "pregnancy" begins.
This is at about the 10th day which is after implantation.

Most stem cell labs only use "Blastocyst" cells that are less than 5 days old.
This stage BTW is when most natural pregnancy's self terminate as the Blastocyst never implants and is washed through the system.
(Should there be maybe a funeral at this point before the toilet is flushed since 100s of 1000s of these "children" are flushed down toilets every single day?)
Just for clarification this Blastocyst is this >.< big the size of that period.

Stem cell researchers take this Blastocyst remove the 30-50 or so cells and place them on a culture medium in a culture dish where they grow, they never form anything other than more stem cells and they replate batches of these cells and continue to grow them usually for several months until there are many millions of them these are "pluripotent" stem cells they are undifferentiated and can be used to grow into virtually any type of cell.

At no time are these cells a viable Embryo, there is no implantation, there are no vital organs, no brain, no nothing just a small clump of of about 30-50 cells.
The very same >.< little period size mass that flushes through women bodies around the world 100,000s of times every single day.

and "Embryo" is a "fully fertilized egg" (meaning past the point of Zygote & Blastocyst and then Implanted on the uterine wall ) this is after at least 10 days that is when you have an actual "Embryo" and then it is several weeks later before you could even consider this to be "sentient life".
Good explanation, thanks Nunyabiz.
So another way to look at this is. . .we are saving a few hundreds blastocysts from ending in the sewer!!! (just joking!)
But one more question: Is this the same procedure for "in-vitro" insimination? So some of these blastocysts could be developped in vitro and, when large enough, be implanted in a mother or surrogate mother uterus???
Is this why some people still fight so hard against the harvesting of "embryos?"
Just asking. I am in favor of stem cell research.

[Sadanie]

Show me in the bible where is says the homosexuality is a sin.
Oh and since "the bible is always right" what about these sexual "sins" that are clearly stated in that same bible?

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.

Now lets get busy stoning about 98% of the entire planet because times a wasting.
I agree that I have never read a CLEAR statement in the bible condemning gays. And, as you point out, the bible has condemned so many "sins" that we have now made part of our "respectable" daily life (divorce, adultery, etc. . .) that it is clear that what is written in the bible has been taken seriously (or not) depending on what today's believers interest is!
And other stories that seem to describe complete obscenities and were NOT punished or judged as sins by God in the bible would today be comdemned by all logical people (like the two virgin sisters who got their elderly father drunk so they could have intercourse with him and become pregnant by him?)
Once again. . .God gave us free will. What we do with it is none of other people's business. And God has not given us perfectly understandable instructions. . .men have by interpreting to their advantage the stories in the bible.

[Sadanie]

If these couples are paying that much per year to keep them frozen where does the discarded ones come from? What decision are you talking about these couples have to make?
When these couple decide they will no longer want to have children, they usually do not spend the money to keep the embryos alive in their "storage" facility!!!
So, unless they are "octomom," they give those embryos up. You know. . .a little like that old sofa and those few boxes of "souvenirs" left at the "self-storage" facilities all over the USA?

[nomorehistory]

Why should I answer a stupid question?

That is like asking the weather man why he doesn't stop it from raining.

See what I mean!! You can't answer.

[Nunyabiz]

See what I mean!! You can't answer.

answer what?
You make no sense and the question is beyond pathetic.

[nomorehistory]

answer what?
You make no sense and the question is beyond pathetic.

Awenasa posted and I quote; "There is a consensus among virtually all human embryologists, worldwide. Every contempory textbook of Human Embryology states that ""the life of the new individual human begins at fertilization""

You answered him saying; "Totally false and not matter how many times you repeat the same BS isn't going to make it true"

I asked you; "How do you make that statement true" and I also said; "apparently you do not have an answer as to how are YOU going to make that statement true. In other words, in more common language,
Prove his statement wrong." You called it BS...prove it.

[Nunyabiz]

Awenasa posted and I quote; "There is a consensus among virtually all human embryologists, worldwide. Every contempory textbook of Human Embryology states that ""the life of the new individual human begins at fertilization""

You answered him saying; "Totally false and not matter how many times you repeat the same BS isn't going to make it true"

I asked you; "How do you make that statement true" and I also said; "apparently you do not have an answer as to how are YOU going to make that statement true. In other words, in more common language,
Prove his statement wrong." You called it BS...prove it.

Repeating a statement that made no sense at all the first time doesn't make it any different.
You just repeated BS.
Again there is nothing to answer anymore than I already did.

/ignore

[Awenasa]

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it.

Fertilization is an amazing 12-24 hour process that scientists are still studying. There is a debate about when exactly during that process human life begins, but what ALL scientists agree is that by the end of the process, human life has begun.

Zygote, embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, teenager, and adult are all levels of development. I believe humans are valuable at EVERY level.

The critical difference between a collection of cells and a living organism is the ability of an organism to act in a coordinated manner for the conitnued health and maintenance of the body as a whole. It is precisely this ability that breaks down at the moment of death, however death might occur. Dead bodies may have plenty of live cells, but their cells no longer function together in a coordinated manner.

Whether a person is conceived through natural or unnatural means, the result is a living, human being.

Embryonic stem cell research kills the donor every single time. In-vitro fertilization results in several living embryos, a few of which are delivered to the parents to produce a successful pregnancy. The remaining embryos are often sent to a lab where their stem cells are cut out and the undeveloped bodies destroyed. There is absolutely no way to get embryonic stem cells from an embryo without killing him or her. We’re not only killing babies in the womb, now we’re killing them in petri dishes too.

I don't have to use religion to argue that HESCR is morally wrong. I can use science, metaphysics and ethics to make my argument.

Stem cells from biopsied testicular tissue are similar to those of human embryonic stem cells.” - Got any of those????

Yet again, another "expert" spreads misinformation to further their Culture of Death agenda. Since when are marine biologists considered experts in HESCR?

It is entirely up to a person to make up their own minds on what is right or wrong. Both sides of this issue have been well presented by experts in the field and can be researched if one can not decide based on their own beliefs.

[nomorehistory]

Excellent, I finally got an answer and quite well stated.

So, NUN...don't bother, I have the answer I needed. You may keep your BS!

[Nunyabiz]

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it.

Fertilization is an amazing 12-24 hour process that scientists are still studying. There is a debate about when exactly during that process human life begins, but what ALL scientists agree is that by the end of the process, human life has begun.

Zygote, embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, teenager, and adult are all levels of development. I believe humans are valuable at EVERY level.

The critical difference between a collection of cells and a living organism is the ability of an organism to act in a coordinated manner for the conitnued health and maintenance of the body as a whole. It is precisely this ability that breaks down at the moment of death, however death might occur. Dead bodies may have plenty of live cells, but their cells no longer function together in a coordinated manner.

Whether a person is conceived through natural or unnatural means, the result is a living, human being.

Embryonic stem cell research kills the donor every single time. In-vitro fertilization results in several living embryos, a few of which are delivered to the parents to produce a successful pregnancy. The remaining embryos are often sent to a lab where their stem cells are cut out and the undeveloped bodies destroyed. There is absolutely no way to get embryonic stem cells from an embryo without killing him or her. We’re not only killing babies in the womb, now we’re killing them in petri dishes too.

I don't have to use religion to argue that HESCR is morally wrong. I can use science, metaphysics and ethics to make my argument.

Stem cells from biopsied testicular tissue are similar to those of human embryonic stem cells.” - Got any of those????

Yet again, another "expert" spreads misinformation to further their Culture of Death agenda. Since when are marine biologists considered experts in HESCR?

It is entirely up to a person to make up their own minds on what is right or wrong. Both sides of this issue have been well presented by experts in the field and can be researched if one can not decide based on their own beliefs.

Total load of crap start to finish.

"beliefs" have no place in such discussion.

[nomorehistory]

Study to show yourself approved! I rest my case. Good luck to you!

[BUSHED]

I believe Stim Cell research a good idea ! :p Wrap your stim cell around that !

You want beliefs, I believe in Love, I believe in babies, right is right, WRONG IS WRONG, I believe in LOVE !

Thank GOD President Obama layed hands on stim Cell Research ! Prayers answered !

Yet the Cathoilics wonder why in past Protestants raised up with PITCH FORKS ! Take that ya pope n hat lovers !

[Pucky]

As a person who's dad passed due to ALS aka Lou Gerigh's Disease and mother passed from Alzheimer's I think it is a good thing.
HighlandWarrior: I hear you. My husband passed away due to ALS. Horrific disease.

Peace to your heart and soul.

[Awenasa]

For those who hold that the methods of science are the only good ways to come to beliefs.

Scientists themselves believe nothing unless proved.

[Nunyabiz]

For those who hold that the methods of science are the only good ways to come to beliefs.

Scientists themselves believe nothing unless proved.

Meaning BTW that science has nothing to do with "belief".

DOH!

[pearl-ivory]

For those who hold that the methods of science are the only good ways to come to beliefs.

Scientists themselves believe nothing unless proved.

There have been plenty of scientist who have believe and plenty who don't, it doesn't change the fact that the believe of the individual doesn't impact the results of the study. Just the use of the data collected. If that use is for good. There is still that nag'n question tho, how far is to far. Are we creating a paradox by extending life beyond it's natural boundries or keeping a person/ child alive after an illness or birth deformity...Now don't get me wrong, I know that alot of people can contribute to society..I just wonder what we are doing to natural selection.