Another Biden Gem

[HighlandWarrior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHEeMWvp59o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K0BFCbLyxk

What he meant to say ? LOL

[HighlandWarrior]

Funny how the libs are backing away from this one.

I have said that Biden was like this from the start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXrsOe2spDE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AwjNvA-vUw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAm_rIN1ziQ

[HighlandWarrior]

Were can I get a pair of those $540.00 sneakers Michelle Obama wore to feed the poor ? Remember when Clinton got the $200.00 plus haircut ? Hollywood designer to the stars designing the White house Living quarters, ordering a pizza from Chicago. How is this not elitist, especially during the time of recession ?

[gabby]

Didn't Michell use to brag that she shopped at Target??
Just more of the "SACRIFICES" Obama and his family are willing to make as examples for us to follow per his EDICT......
Hypocrisy in it's purest form.

Your highness, the peasants have no cornish hens.

[tjusa]

Were can I get a pair of those $540.00 sneakers Michelle Obama wore to feed the poor ? Remember when Clinton got the $200.00 plus haircut ? Hollywood designer to the stars designing the White house Living quarters, ordering a pizza from Chicago. How is this not elitist, especially during the time of recession ?

is it elitist because he is the first black president? Funny how, the neocons did not question the Bush & Cheney personal spending in the last eight years. This country was in a recession then. What about the Reagan era and the recession then? No complaints from the neocons on the Reagan's lavish personal spending. There is no winning when it comes to dealing with the neocon republican "lynchmob mentality." That same mentality is the reason so many innocent lives were taken during slavery and post slavery. Black men were hung from trees because of the "lynchmob mentality" of that time. Now, history is repeating itself, only this time with a more subtle version of a lynchmob mentality. Neocons are hiding behind the lynchmob mentality, calling it "concern" for us. What they fail to see, is that it is NOT working! All one has to do is pick up a history book and see the commonalities. It is hard for me to understand how anyone with an African American heritage can rubberstamp the neocon "lynchmob mentality." Especially, Steele who is being used and made to look like a moron, with absolutely no support. Neocon "white only" clubs would never allow him membership, but they dupe him into doing their bidding. Neocons heavily abide by the 1 drop rule, which equates to having 1 drop of African blood inferior to them. As quiet as it is kept that rule still holds true to this day, it is the real reason Limpbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, and the rest of the neocon camp really despises Obama. And, I'm finding that the more folks I converse with agree.

Maybe, the Obama's should just "eat cake." I'm sure if they did, the neocons would criticize the size of "slices" they consumed.

[tjusa]

Didn't Michell use to brag that she shopped at Target??
Just more of the "SACRIFICES" Obama and his family are willing to make as examples for us to follow per his EDICT......
Hypocrisy in it's purest form.

Your highness, the peasants have no cornish hens.

how many sacrifices did Laura & Dubya make during the last eight years? I agree with you, neocon republicans are the worst at being hypocritical. They are also masterful at being hypocritical and lying at the same time without moving their lips. Funny how, they conveniently try to "rewrite" history and never mention the lavish spending of the Regans & the Bush years, during times of recession. There is no winning with them, some neocons fault Michelle with not being classy enough, and then others find fault with everything she does. Funny how, their approval does not match the majority of Americans! Congratulations, to being the WORST hypocrites in modern history, the neocon republican party of hate!

[Sadanie]

how many sacrifices did Laura & Dubya make during the last eight years? I agree with you, neocon republicans are the worst at being hypocritical. They are also masterful at being hypocritical and lying at the same time without moving their lips. Funny how, they conveniently try to "rewrite" history and never mention the lavish spending of the Regans & the Bush years, during times of recession. There is no winning with them, some neocons fault Michelle with not being classy enough, and then others find fault with everything she does. Funny how, their approval does not match the majority of Americans! Congratulations, to being the WORST hypocrites in modern history, the neocon republican party of hate!


I very much agree with you, tjusa. The first lady cannot do anything right for the extreme Republican.
She is just whom she is, not pretense, no hypocrisy! If she sees a sweater that pleases her and cost $65.00 at J.Crew, she gets it. If she sees a pair of tennis that is comfortable and she likes and it costs $500.00, she gets it. She doesn't dress to please US, she dresses to please herself and her family. She even wears the same clothes over and over again, because she likes them and they are comfortable!
How many prior first ladies did this? Michelle Obama is a millionaire in her own right. She is not taking money from the American people to purchase her clothes. She works hard for a first lady (3 "formal" appearances a week, how many of these did we have from former first ladies?), raising 2 beautiful and healthy daughters, and keeping her husband in love and happy!
She gave up a high paying job to be our first lady! The least she can do is dress herself the way she wishes. . .and by the way, that is benefitting our fashion industry!
I think it is really small minded and cheap of people to criticize Michelle Obama for a pair of "expensive" tennis, but criticize her for not being "stylish enough and belittleling her for shopping at Target, J.Crew, H & M, or Talbot!
This kind of critiques actually shows everyone how little "negative" publicity can be dumped on Michelle Obama!
If she was failing in an important part of her role as first lady, I'm sure you would hear about that. . .rather than an "expensive" pair of sneaker!!!

[splendor]

Didn't Michell use to brag that she shopped at Target??
Just more of the "SACRIFICES" Obama and his family are willing to make as examples for us to follow per his EDICT......
Hypocrisy in it's purest form.

Your highness, the peasants have no cornish hens.

Hey Gabby, remember this at the RNC?


Cindy McCain's party clothes:
Candidate's wife sported
costly designer duds at RNC

DAILY NEWS STAFF
Friday, September 5th 2008, 9:51 AM

Lady sported over $300,000 worth of designer duds at the Republican National Convention Tuesday night, says an estimate by Vanity Fair.

According to the magazine, McCain's 3-carat diamond earrings alone weigh in at $280,000.

Rounding out the beer heiress' ensemble was a $3000 Oscar de la Renta dress, a $4500 Chanel watch, a four-strand pearl necklace worth between $11,000 and $25,000 and a $600 pair of designer shoes.


Want to talk about $500 sneakers?;)

[chrissy]

Were can I get a pair of those $540.00 sneakers Michelle Obama wore to feed the poor ? Remember when Clinton got the $200.00 plus haircut ? Hollywood designer to the stars designing the White house Living quarters, ordering a pizza from Chicago. How is this not elitist, especially during the time of recession ?

another distraction from the neoconservative republicans. And another, pathetic attempt to take the focus off of the real problems we face. So very sad, to watch them self-destruct this way. Someone/anyone..please tell them, they're hemorrhaging profusely, and that death is imminent. :(

[chrissy]

is it elitist because he is the first black president? Funny how, the neocons did not question the Bush & Cheney personal spending in the last eight years. This country was in a recession then. What about the Reagan era and the recession then? No complaints from the neocons on the Reagan's lavish personal spending. There is no winning when it comes to dealing with the neocon republican "lynchmob mentality." That same mentality is the reason so many innocent lives were taken during slavery and post slavery. Black men were hung from trees because of the "lynchmob mentality" of that time. Now, history is repeating itself, only this time with a more subtle version of a lynchmob mentality. Neocons are hiding behind the lynchmob mentality, calling it "concern" for us. What they fail to see, is that it is NOT working! All one has to do is pick up a history book and see the commonalities. It is hard for me to understand how anyone with an African American heritage can rubberstamp the neocon "lynchmob mentality." Especially, Steele who is being used and made to look like a moron, with absolutely no support. Neocon "white only" clubs would never allow him membership, but they dupe him into doing their bidding. Neocons heavily abide by the 1 drop rule, which equates to having 1 drop of African blood inferior to them. As quiet as it is kept that rule still holds true to this day, it is the real reason Limpbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, and the rest of the neocon camp really despises Obama. And, I'm finding that the more folks I converse with agree.

Maybe, the Obama's should just "eat cake." I'm sure if they did, the neocons would criticize the size of "slices" they consumed.

your observations may be correct, as much as I do not want to believe it. The more disgusting things they do to smear our president, the more I began to associate their actions with racism. No other president, even Clinton has been treated as badly by the neoconservatives as this one, and it's not just b/c of politics..not after 8 years of the Bush/Cheney regime. :o

[chrissy]

Didn't Michell use to brag that she shopped at Target??
Just more of the "SACRIFICES" Obama and his family are willing to make as examples for us to follow per his EDICT......
Hypocrisy in it's purest form.

Your highness, the peasants have no cornish hens.

What "SACRIFICES" are the neoconservative leaders making? Seriously, Rush Limp, does not appear to be suffering, neither does Annie, Hannity or the rest of the neoconservative leaders. What a joke! Only we're not laughing with their followers, we're laughing at them. However, it's still sad and pathetic to watch their desperate antics being played out so blatantly.:o

[Sadanie]

another distraction from the neoconservative republicans. And another, pathetic attempt to take the focus off of the real problems we face. So very sad, to watch them self-destruct this way. Someone/anyone..please tell them, they're hemorrhaging profusely, and that death is imminent. :(



Yes, it seems time for neoconservative to recognize that, if they want to continue to exist, they will need to change their "fight" from one focus uniquely on deprecating President Obama, his administration, even his wife, to designing a real strategy that would contribute to the healing of the economy, the healing of race relation, the healing of class divisions.

I have some hope, with Cantor etc. . .taking to the road with a "somewhat new" message! By doing so, they are at least (not in words, but in action), rejecting the extreme comments made by Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. . .
But unless they stop "attacking" on stupid details . . .give me a break! The price of a pair of shoes. . . that the first lady paid for from her own pocket!!!! How desperate can they get!

[HighlandWarrior]

is it elitist because he is the first black president? Funny how, the neocons did not question the Bush & Cheney personal spending in the last eight years. This country was in a recession then. What about the Reagan era and the recession then? No complaints from the neocons on the Reagan's lavish personal spending. There is no winning when it comes to dealing with the neocon republican "lynchmob mentality." That same mentality is the reason so many innocent lives were taken during slavery and post slavery. Black men were hung from trees because of the "lynchmob mentality" of that time. Now, history is repeating itself, only this time with a more subtle version of a lynchmob mentality. Neocons are hiding behind the lynchmob mentality, calling it "concern" for us. What they fail to see, is that it is NOT working! All one has to do is pick up a history book and see the commonalities. It is hard for me to understand how anyone with an African American heritage can rubberstamp the neocon "lynchmob mentality." Especially, Steele who is being used and made to look like a moron, with absolutely no support. Neocon "white only" clubs would never allow him membership, but they dupe him into doing their bidding. Neocons heavily abide by the 1 drop rule, which equates to having 1 drop of African blood inferior to them. As quiet as it is kept that rule still holds true to this day, it is the real reason Limpbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, and the rest of the neocon camp really despises Obama. And, I'm finding that the more folks I converse with agree.

Maybe, the Obama's should just "eat cake." I'm sure if they did, the neocons would criticize the size of "slices" they consumed.

Nice spin. Actually the so called "neocons" were criticized and the Obama's should be too. Was the so called "neocon" spending during the worst economic disaster since the 1970's? You need to check your history Are you talking about the lynch mobs started by Democrats AKA the DIXIECRATS that people like Democratic Senator Robert Byrd were a part of while Republicans are the party of Lincoln ? My grandmother whom I idolized was African American/Cherokee. You take a post about wearing a pair of 540.00 sneakers to a charity event and turn it into racisim. George W. Bush has more persons of color in key positions than any president before him. It is the Republicans that want African Americans to thrive while the Dems want to keep them right where they are by subsidizing. I happen to like Michelle and love the garden idea. The sneakers were a bad idea. So you would were a designer suit to feed the poor during a recession? I love the way the liberals point to Bush. Number one it is once again a TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT MENTALITY and number two Bush's was not during a RECESSION.

I think Gabby was calling Michelle a hypocrite.

btw: I like how it took this post for Dems to come over to a post about Biden's mistake and the article about the sneakers was on the Huffington Post .LOL I just proved that people were reading the post on Biden but steered clear not wanting to acknowledge the fact that Biden is an idiot.

[chrissy]

Nice spin. Actually the so called "neocons" were criticized and the Obama's should be too. Was the so called "neocon" spending during the worst economic disaster since the 1970's? You need to check your history Are you talking about the lynch mobs started by Democrats AKA the DIXIECRATS that people like Democratic Senator Robert Byrd were a part of while Republicans are the party of Lincoln ? My grandmother whom I idolized was African American/Cherokee. You take a post about wearing a pair of 540.00 sneakers to a charity event and turn it into racisim. George W. Bush has more persons of color in key positions than any president before him. It is the Republicans that want African Americans to thrive while the Dems want to keep them right where they are by subsidizing. I happen to like Michelle and love the garden idea. The sneakers were a bad idea. So you would were a designer suit to feed the poor during a recession? I love the way the liberals point to Bush. Number one it is once again a TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT MENTALITY and number two Bush's was not during a RECESSION.

You talk about my reading comprehension. Gabby was calling Michelle a hypocrite.

btw: I like how it took this post for Dems to come over to a post about Biden's mistake and the article about the sneakers was on the Huffington Post .LOL

I don't see how two hypocrites=right, either :o It just sounds hypocritical to me coming from the neoconservative republicans. To be fair, tjusa was referring to "neoconservative republicans." He did not say anything about "the Republicans."

[HighlandWarrior]

I happen to think Michelle is pretty awesome and will be a great first lady. I just thought she made mistake.

[chrissy]

Nice spin. Actually the so called "neocons" were criticized and the Obama's should be too. Was the so called "neocon" spending during the worst economic disaster since the 1970's? You need to check your history Are you talking about the lynch mobs started by Democrats AKA the DIXIECRATS that people like Democratic Senator Robert Byrd were a part of while Republicans are the party of Lincoln ? My grandmother whom I idolized was African American/Cherokee. You take a post about wearing a pair of 540.00 sneakers to a charity event and turn it into racisim. George W. Bush has more persons of color in key positions than any president before him. It is the Republicans that want African Americans to thrive while the Dems want to keep them right where they are by subsidizing. I happen to like Michelle and love the garden idea. The sneakers were a bad idea. So you would were a designer suit to feed the poor during a recession? I love the way the liberals point to Bush. Number one it is once again a TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT MENTALITY and number two Bush's was not during a RECESSION.

I think Gabby was calling Michelle a hypocrite.

btw: I like how it took this post for Dems to come over to a post about Biden's mistake and the article about the sneakers was on the Huffington Post .LOL I just proved that people were reading the post on Biden but steered clear not wanting to acknowledge the fact that Biden is an idiot.

how you have completely "ignored" splendor's reply! You are entitled to your opinion, as most of us are. However, when one compares splendor's reply to yours..the hypocrisy becomes blatantly obvious to those who choose to see it. It just makes one wonder, what would have been said if Cindy McCain was the first lady. No, two wrongs, does not make it right. However, hypocrisy speaking to what they now see as hypocrisy..is ludacris!! In my opinion, the pathetic attempts from the neoconservatives to distract the American people are failing miserably. LOL!

[HighlandWarrior]

how you have completely "ignored" splendor's reply! You are entitled to your opinion, as most of us are. However, when one compares splendor's reply to yours..the hypocrisy becomes blatantly obvious to those who choose to see it. It just makes one wonder, what would have been said if Cindy McCain was the first lady. No, two wrongs, does not make ti right. However, hypocrisy speaking to what they now see as hypocrisy..is ludacris!! LOL!

Specifically what ? I am genuine in my thoughts and who I am there fore it would have been just as big a mistake for Cindy McCain.

[chrissy]

I happen to think Michelle is pretty awesome and will be a great first lady. I just thought she made mistake.

was it a mistake, and Cindy McCain's attire was not? Or, the Bush/Reagan spending during recessions? The only difference I see here, is that Michelle Obama is reaching out to poor people, regardless of what she's wearing. I have a heart full of compassion for people less fortunate than me. Yet, I dress based upon my taste. I give to charities based upon my responsibility to give back. I think the latter should be more important.:)

[chrissy]

Specifically what ? I am genuine in my thoughts and who I am there fore it would have been just as big a mistake for Cindy McCain.

I seriously think it would be wrong in both cases to criticize either woman. Why? B/c character shouldn't be based on superficial things. In my opinion, it should be based upon actions. The recent actions of Michelle Obama speaks volumes over what's she's wearing. Maybe, that's just me...:confused:

[Sadanie]

Specifically what ? I am genuine in my thoughts and who I am there fore it would have been just as big a mistake for Cindy McCain.


Just in case you genuinely missed it, here is a replay of what Splendor posted:
DAILY NEWS STAFF
Friday, September 5th 2008, 9:51 AM

Lady sported over $300,000 worth of designer duds at the Republican National Convention Tuesday night, says an estimate by Vanity Fair.

According to the magazine, McCain's 3-carat diamond earrings alone weigh in at $280,000.

Rounding out the beer heiress' ensemble was a $3000 Oscar de la Renta dress, a $4500 Chanel watch, a four-strand pearl necklace worth between $11,000 and $25,000 and a $600 pair of designer shoes.


Want to talk about $500 sneakers?

I would say that Michelle's outfit came to a whopping $800.00!
(J.Crew sweater, seen several time before: more or less $75.00; off the shelves casual cropped pants: more or less $70.00; the famous sneakers: $540.00; casual custom jewelry: $85.00).
Yes, she was visiting a homeless shelter. . .maybe she should have worn a potatoe bag????
In the other hand, I don't think Cindy McCain would have visited a homeless shelter. . .even in a complete Lanvin outfit!!!!

[Sadanie]

I seriously think it would be wrong in both cases to criticize either woman. Why? B/c character shouldn't be based on superficial things. In my opinion, it should be based upon actions. The recent actions of Michelle Obama speaks volumes over what's she's wearing. Maybe, that's just me...:confused:


You are so right, Chrissy! You certainly takes the highroad, and I wish I didn't let myself be "baited" in arguing these silly points!
Thanks for showing me the way!

[HighlandWarrior]

was it a mistake, and Cindy McCain's attire was not? Or, the Bush/Reagan spending during recessions? The only difference I see here, is that Michelle Obama is reaching out to poor people, regardless of what she's wearing. I have a heart full of compassion for people less fortunate than me. Yet, I dress based upon my taste. I give to charities based upon my responsibility to give back. I think the latter should be more important.:)

Cindy McCain as far as I know has never been First Lady. If she had done it as First Lady during these times it would have been a mistake. Cindy McCain does not also brag about wearing K-MART clothes while wearing sneakers that cost way more than most people's complete wardrobe. Actually the recession was under Carter and Reagan gave us the longest period of peacetime economic prosperity. Reaching out to poor people. Something most First Ladies have done including Laura Bush who Michele speaks highly of.

How about Biden's idiotic remark huh ?

[chrissy]

You are so right, Chrissy! You certainly takes the highroad, and I wish I didn't let myself be "baited" in arguing these silly points!
Thanks for showing me the way!

but I'm not making any promises, sister~ I'm counting on you to do likewise, b/c it is very easy to get baited, and see your message get lost.;)

[chrissy]

Cindy McCain as far as I know has never been First Lady. If she had done it as First Lady during these times it would have been a mistake. Cindy McCain does not also brag about wearing K-MART clothes while wearing sneakers that cost way more than most people's complete wardrobe. Actually the recession was under Carter and Reagan gave us the longest period of peacetime economic prosperity. Reaching out to poor people. Something most First Ladies have done including Laura Bush who Michele speaks highly of.

How about Biden's idiotic remark huh ?

what has any of that has to do, with her recent actions of reaching out to military familes, and those less fortunate than most? Her approval rating is higher than the president's, she must be doing something right. Or, maybe the majority of Americans focus is more on what she's doing, and NOT on what she's wearing.

[HighlandWarrior]

Just in case you genuinely missed it, here is a replay of what Splendor posted:
DAILY NEWS STAFF
Friday, September 5th 2008, 9:51 AM

Lady sported over $300,000 worth of designer duds at the Republican National Convention Tuesday night, says an estimate by Vanity Fair.

According to the magazine, McCain's 3-carat diamond earrings alone weigh in at $280,000.

Rounding out the beer heiress' ensemble was a $3000 Oscar de la Renta dress, a $4500 Chanel watch, a four-strand pearl necklace worth between $11,000 and $25,000 and a $600 pair of designer shoes.


Want to talk about $500 sneakers?

I would say that Michelle's outfit came to a whopping $800.00!
(J.Crew sweater, seen several time before: more or less $75.00; off the shelves casual cropped pants: more or less $70.00; the famous sneakers: $540.00; casual custom jewelry: $85.00).
Yes, she was visiting a homeless shelter. . .maybe she should have worn a potatoe bag????
In the other hand, I don't think Cindy McCain would have visited a homeless shelter. . .even in a complete Lanvin outfit!!!!

What has Cindy McCain have to do with this? So we are comparing a First Lady with a non first lady and comparing the RNC convention to feeding the homeless. Talk about extremes. A regular pair of sneakers would have done the job. It is all about the impact a person in that position has just like Biden's blunder. Michelle wearing those sneakers flaunting them in front of people that have not is not different than the oil CEO's arriving in corporate jets and while we are on the subject do you really think Obama had didn't know they were going to use one of the Air Fore One Fleet for an NYC low altitude fly over ?

[HighlandWarrior]

what has any of that has to do, with her recent actions of reaching out to military familes, and those less fortunate than most? Her approval rating is higher than the president's, she must be doing something right. Or, maybe the majority of Americans focus is more on what she's doing, and NOT on what she's wearing.

Guess you didn't read this post or just chose to ignore it.
"I happen to think Michelle is pretty awesome and will be a great first lady. I just thought she made mistake."

[chrissy]

Guess you didn't read this post or just chose to ignore it.
"I happen to think Michelle is pretty awesome and will be a great first lady. I just thought she made mistake."

HW~ I did not ignore it.:) I'm just trying to convince you it is not about clothes/shoes..it's about actions. I think she's pretty awesome too, only I could care less about what she's wearing. She's not flaunting wealth in my opinion.:)

[Sadanie]

Guess you didn't read this post or just chose to ignore it.
"I happen to think Michelle is pretty awesome and will be a great first lady. I just thought she made mistake."


I don't think it was a mistake. You see, I believe that Michelle Obama is a fair, secure, and honest person. She doesn't feel she needs to "play politic" and wear her expensive sneaker at home, but NEVER, NEVER wear them in public. . . especially if it is during a voluteer visit to a homeless shelter!"
If she wants something, she likes it, and it fits her. . .she gets it! And if she gets it. . .she is secure enough not to hide it!
Why should she? She is a giving person, and she knows that it is not the clothes that she wears that MAKE her!

Contrary to Gabby's assessment of "wearing expensive sneaker" as a sign of hypocrisy, I see it as a sign of HONESTY, and self-assurance about what she can bring to America's poorest that is really important: Herself, her attention, her smile, her warmth!

[HighlandWarrior]

I see it as tying in to other actions like hiring a Hollywood Designer to the Stars for their living quarters in the White House and having a pizza sent from Chicago, having one of the Air Force One fleet jets doing a "photo op" flying low over NYC, that say "elitist", which is not what they claim to be.

[graceland]

Besides all points she had a good job wasn't she a lawyer? So she has money, let her spend it as she sees fit, because she's in the public eye she should deprive herself? Who cares, as long as she's not spending our money!

Let's not forget how much money Nancy Reagan spent on new china:)

[Sadanie]

I see it as tying in to other actions like hiring a Hollywood Designer to the Stars for their living quarters in the White House and having a pizza sent from Chicago, having one of the Air Force One fleet jets doing a "photo op" flying low over NYC, that say "elitist", which is not what they claim to be.


Do you know how many people have lobsters delivered from Maine?
The "photo op" was not organized by President Obama. Is he suppose to oversee even those tiny details? It turned out into a disaster, but I would still be curious to know how that happened!
It would have been so simple to make a big publicity stunt by letting every TV and media outlet adverstise it, and have people of NY "participate" in this. There would have been no panic, and everyone would have enjoyed it!
The "right" authorities were aware this would happen, so who made the decision not to let the media know. . .and why?
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some foul play there!

[HighlandWarrior]

Do you know how many people have lobsters delivered from Maine?
The "photo op" was not organized by President Obama. Is he suppose to oversee even those tiny details? It turned out into a disaster, but I would still be curious to know how that happened!
It would have been so simple to make a big publicity stunt by letting every TV and media outlet adverstise it, and have people of NY "participate" in this. There would have been no panic, and everyone would have enjoyed it!
The "right" authorities were aware this would happen, so who made the decision not to let the media know. . .and why?
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some foul play there!

That is quite different from having a "single" lobster delivered. I don't think that they used one of the Air Force One fleet without his permission no more than I believe that he sat in a church for 20 years and just happened to not be there when Wright spewed his hateful and divisive remarks. They could have photo shopped the jet over anything they wanted to.

[Sadanie]

That is quite different from having a "single" lobster delivered. I don't think that they used one of the Air Force One fleet without his permission no more than I believe that he sat in a church for 20 years and just happened to not be there when Wright spewed his hateful and divisive remarks. They could have photo shopped the jet over anything they wanted to.


Whatever, Highlandwarrior. The only time you will let off on President Obama is if the majority turns against him. . . which I hope will be never.
The fact is that President Obama is doing a great job, that (as today's Gallup polls, which is a lot more reliable than Fox News or Rasmussen) his popularity is at 67, while the percentage of people willing to admit they are Republican today is down to 21%.
And I think this is sad. Believe it or not (although I said it many times before) I believe it is necessary for our country to keep two strong parties (at least!). So it doesn't make me happy to see that the Republican party is dwindling so quickly. Basically, only extreme Neocons are left. The moderate, reasonable, intelligent Republicans are in limbo, waiting for a party that will represent them. . .and it is not the party you're talking about!

[HighlandWarrior]

I believe he is doing a great job toward getting us attacked again and coming out of the economic disaster only to be strangled by massive inflation. I pray everyday that you and your fellow liberals are right and I am wrong.

[Sadanie]

I believe he is doing a great job toward getting us attacked again and coming out of the economic disaster only to be strangled by massive inflation. I pray everyday that you and your fellow liberals are right and I am wrong.


Well, thank you for that much! It puts you miles ahead of Limbaugh, Hannity, and many extreme neocons!

[chrissy]

I believe he is doing a great job toward getting us attacked again and coming out of the economic disaster only to be strangled by massive inflation. I pray everyday that you and your fellow liberals are right and I am wrong.

that GOD's Will be done and NOT man's assumptions~:)

[Redv14]

I believe he is doing a great job toward getting us attacked again and coming out of the economic disaster only to be strangled by massive inflation. I pray everyday that you and your fellow liberals are right and I am wrong.

Which of the elected officials that were in power before we were attacked the first time do you hold responsible for that attack?

[Redv14]

That is quite different from having a "single" lobster delivered. I don't think that they used one of the Air Force One fleet without his permission no more than I believe that he sat in a church for 20 years and just happened to not be there when Wright spewed his hateful and divisive remarks. They could have photo shopped the jet over anything they wanted to.

You just can't let go of Rev. Wright. That's too bad, because he is old news to everyone else.

[Sadanie]

Which of the elected officials that were in power before we were attacked the first time do you hold responsible for that attack?

Excellent question, RedV!
We may be attacked again, but it wouldn't be President Obama's fault, no more at least than it was George Bush's fault. . .but wait. . .maybe it was George Bush's fault. . .
Maybe the conspiration theory was not a theory after all!;)

[BUSHED]

Graceland don't get me started on Ronald Reagan, who GOP still trys to raise thou he is dead, as he was Union buster, used his powers as Gov. California used his powers to keep migrate workers from organizeing as he took pac money from Southern Plantation owners, as Americans my age wondered what in hells name is he going to do today.

Reagan Admin passed laws allows Politicans to slander one another without fear of being sued. How do you think they won all these years. As they used PROPAGANDA AND SLANDER AS TODAY MITT ROMNEY THAT INFAMOUS CONSERVATIVE MORMON REPUBLICAN called Obama Admin a Monarchy.


I like Joe Biddens style, let'em choke on it... they wanted it. I'm a scrapper, or more appropiate political jargon, I will not go quietly into that dark night...

( meaning I will seek truth and call liars, liars ! )

[Redv14]

Funny how the libs are backing away from this one.

I have said that Biden was like this from the start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXrsOe2spDE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AwjNvA-vUw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAm_rIN1ziQ

No one is backing away from anything. You are recycling old news that you have presented time and time again. No matter what you think about Biden, the election is over and he is the Vice-President. If you expect those of us who voted for him to defend him every time you decide to post a video of him saying something wrong, forget it. We have better things to do. When George Bush was president we were not happy but we survived it. Now its your turn.

[BUSHED]

Not backing NO WHERE ! Thou the RNC is, US LIBS AND MODERATES, you can choke on this, NO! I WON'T WATCH YOUR VIDEO LINKS !

[Redv14]

What has Cindy McCain have to do with this? So we are comparing a First Lady with a non first lady and comparing the RNC convention to feeding the homeless. Talk about extremes. A regular pair of sneakers would have done the job. It is all about the impact a person in that position has just like Biden's blunder. Michelle wearing those sneakers flaunting them in front of people that have not is not different than the oil CEO's arriving in corporate jets and while we are on the subject do you really think Obama had didn't know they were going to use one of the Air Fore One Fleet for an NYC low altitude fly over ?

Are you out of your mind? How would any of the poor people know how much Michelle Obama paid for her sneakers that you claim she was flaunting in front of them? It's not anyone's business what she wears or how much her clothes cost any more that it was anyone's business what Hillary, Nancy, Jackie, or any other first lady wore! If Cindy Mc Cain had become first lady would you have expected her to begin shopping at Target or J. Crew? No, you certainly would not. I don't know what is motivating these ridiculous attacks against Mrs. Obama but I am damn tired of them.

[TRUTHER/FREEDOM FIGHTER]

is it elitist because he is the first black president? Funny how, the neocons did not question the bush & cheney personal spending in the last eight years. This country was in a recession then. What about the reagan era and the recession then? No complaints from the neocons on the reagan's lavish personal spending. There is no winning when it comes to dealing with the neocon republican "lynchmob mentality." that same mentality is the reason so many innocent lives were taken during slavery and post slavery. Black men were hung from trees because of the "lynchmob mentality" of that time. Now, history is repeating itself, only this time with a more subtle version of a lynchmob mentality. Neocons are hiding behind the lynchmob mentality, calling it "concern" for us. What they fail to see, is that it is not working! All one has to do is pick up a history book and see the commonalities. It is hard for me to understand how anyone with an african american heritage can rubberstamp the neocon "lynchmob mentality." especially, steele who is being used and made to look like a moron, with absolutely no support. Neocon "white only" clubs would never allow him membership, but they dupe him into doing their bidding. Neocons heavily abide by the 1 drop rule, which equates to having 1 drop of african blood inferior to them. As quiet as it is kept that rule still holds true to this day, it is the real reason limpbaugh, hannity, coulter, and the rest of the neocon camp really despises obama. And, i'm finding that the more folks i converse with agree.

Maybe, the obama's should just "eat cake." i'm sure if they did, the neocons would criticize the size of "slices" they consumed.

i like how its all about left right here. What a joke you people are living in. Wake up sheeple, obama is a paid actor, so was bush, clinton, reagan, all of them after kennedy, who was assassinated by the cia...

[BUSHED]

TFF, it's about ... shock jocks being old like Imus as he kisses Ann Coulter as he gives Sean Hannity a reach around, O Bill Oreally goes don't forget me Glen Beck,,, as Joe Scarbarough trying to horn in on our Conservative rateings.

[Sadanie]

i like how its all about left right here. What a joke you people are living in. Wake up sheeple, obama is a paid actor, so was bush, clinton, reagan, all of them after kennedy, who was assassinated by the cia...


I fully agree with you about Bush. We all know that Reagan was an actor. Clinton. . . I don't think so. . .but I won't argue with you about him.
But President Obama is the real thing. . .that's why he has so many ennemies among big business, and Religious right.
For once (since Kennedy), they do not know how to make our President act like a puppet! They just don't know how to handle him.

But since you are a "freedom fighter," what do you call "freedom," and what would you do if you obtained that "feedom?" What would this country look like in your "freedom dream?"

Can you actually express yourself and your ideas and opinions? Or are you limited to throwing out belittleling comments in a "hit and run" kind of way?

[BUSHED]

Obama wants diversity, opinions of open kind, in positive attitude as true think tank, offers positive comments instead of obstructing as RNC does.

On these boards found very few offer true positive comments from the RIGHTIES as reason they appear to be so far right as they was wrong in doing that to them selves. If they are of the opinions of KKK will thank God when they're gone.


I know his stance on Torture has to be Political, as he is President not abuse the powers of DOJ as Bush Admin., did. As reason to create pressure on Torture so it is not put on a back burner. As it would be a mistake not to learn from History of this, as being agaisnt Torture is high ground as it seems some so called educaited people don't comprehend that fact of HISTORY.

[TRUTHER/FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Ok, you want to know, here it is. The government is too big too exists, obama will further the big government, i will bring us back to the constitution, and our bill of rights, which are being stripped from us daily. Ive seen enough of this on youtube to see that socialism, is just around the corner. Companies too big to fail, are too big to exist. Bailing out these companies is wrong, spending our money to save these people who are trying to backrupt our country. I would hang all treasonist, like the bilderburgs, council on foriegn relations, trilateral commissions, becasue the are hell bent on destroying this country, but first use its power to reign over all other counries, you will see more of our freedoms taken away slowly but surely. In my us, idealoliges will reign supreme, just like freedom of thought, and real freedom of speech, not state controlled media like today. Schools will be reformed, to better teach our youth about the things that truly matter in life, not your social life. I would kill reality tv. Because it is the downfall of society, and so is fast food and a weak border down here in the south. Simple taxes, audit or destroy the non-federal private reserve, or as you know it now as the federal reserve, a lie. Its privately owned, with private interest, and hell bent on printing money to no end. Also audit the irs. Maybe just abolish both, they are all crooks. I could go on and on, details and details, but who here would understad...

[BUSHED]

Government NOT BEEN DOING IT'S JOB, apparently needs 800 more IRS workers to catch LOW LIFE FAT CATS ABUSEING NAFTA CAFTA ,

Secondly was RNC originaly wrote TARP without PROPER REGULATIONS UNDER RNC GOOP...

NOT BEEN ENUFF REGULATION in USFDA, FCC, EOC, NSA, FDIC, seems been too little GOVERNMENT BY THE RIGHT WINGERS !!!

click this http://tvally.com/showthread.php?t=2700 3rd post down... hAR HAR !! GNAW TOP YOUR HEAD OFF MATEY !!!

[Sadanie]

Ok, you want to know, here it is. The government is too big too exists, obama will further the big government, i will bring us back to the constitution, and our bill of rights, which are being stripped from us daily. Ive seen enough of this on youtube to see that socialism, is just around the corner. Companies too big to fail, are too big to exist. Bailing out these companies is wrong, spending our money to save these people who are trying to backrupt our country. I would hang all treasonist, like the bilderburgs, council on foriegn relations, trilateral commissions, becasue the are hell bent on destroying this country, but first use its power to reign over all other counries, you will see more of our freedoms taken away slowly but surely. In my us, idealoliges will reign supreme, just like freedom of thought, and real freedom of speech, not state controlled media like today. Schools will be reformed, to better teach our youth about the things that truly matter in life, not your social life. I would kill reality tv. Because it is the downfall of society, and so is fast food and a weak border down here in the south. Simple taxes, audit or destroy the non-federal private reserve, or as you know it now as the federal reserve, a lie. Its privately owned, with private interest, and hell bent on printing money to no end. Also audit the irs. Maybe just abolish both, they are all crooks. I could go on and on, details and details, but who here would understad...


This post makes a lot more sense. And although I do not agree with everything you say or your entire vision of the "ideal" US, you have listed some truths and some real issues of concern.
I believe that over the next few days we would all benefit from debating your ideas, and you may find that we are not so different in our ultimate dreams. . .maybe the main differences may be in how to achieve those dreams and in "twinking" these dreams.
So thank you for an interesting post.

[BUSHED]

Sadanie I think that post by TFF lacks enuff logic on proper government controls... sounds like MONARCHY right wing is anti Union and Taxs to support the Troops to me...

[splendor]

This post makes a lot more sense. And although I do not agree with everything you say or your entire vision of the "ideal" US, you have listed some truths and some real issues of concern.
I believe that over the next few days we would all benefit from debating your ideas, and you may find that we are not so different in our ultimate dreams. . .maybe the main differences may be in how to achieve those dreams and in "twinking" these dreams.
So thank you for an interesting post.

Sadanie, you truly have missed your calling. The President should make you an Ambassador of Good Will.:)

[BUSHED]

TFF you copy a Rush Limpbaugh RNC fact sheet to devlope that post of Government less noing by RNC party !!!

[Sadanie]

Sadanie I think that post by TFF lacks enuff logic on proper government controls... sounds like MONARCHY right wing is anti Union and Taxs to support the Troops to me...


Well, as I said, I don't agree with all of it, but it is certainly a more interesting post than the first few he was spewing!
I think some of the points he is trying to make deserve more consideration and debate, and I am more than willing to discuss this with him. . . . even if he doesn't like me! (LOL)

[BUSHED]

I wanted to a Joe Biden body gaurd !!!! :)

[Sadanie]

Sadanie, you truly have missed your calling. The President should make you an Ambassador of Good Will.:)


No thanks! I don't want to take the shots for anyone! Wait. . .I am already taking shots right here!
Maybe I could do it!!! (LOL):):):)

[TRUTHER/FREEDOM FIGHTER]

What are you talking about bushed, dude just stop. Serioulsy, you hurt your own cause. Obviously you hear what you want. And i think i will stop using a site that has moderaters commenting and looking for people to throw out. I like to say what i like to say. Keep wearing your face masks, listen to every word obama feeds you, say yes sir, may i have another one sir. I want more bull************. Let me lick your feet, save us from that tyrrant bush, he was soo mean to us. Oh our savior, please help us during this time of recession, spend more of my money to do it too. Here, take it all. You sheeple make me sick, you just have to label it anyway you see fit, no matter the true opinion of your so called attacker, so i will label you, the unforgiven.
Because you will allow this country to fall so far from its original course, because you choose, not to listen, or learn form history. Another great war is coming, and it will envelop you sheeple followers, while i survive with a lesser known true opinion on how the united states should conduct itself. **************** the left right, its your only safe-gaurd saving you from the truth. Because there is no such thing. Keep the lie alive, and tune in tomorrow for your favorite, american idol. I know you cant live without that, now can you sheeple? Ohhh, gooood, eat it up, just eat it all up.....

[BUSHED]

DUDE I say what I want to say, dude, as I go where I want too DUDE !

Ask anyone on these boards BUSHED TAKES NO BS FROM NO ONE !

If I get banned by, my friends know whats up !

[TRUTHER/FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Really, then why are you eating up obamas bs?

[HighlandWarrior]

No one is backing away from anything. You are recycling old news that you have presented time and time again. No matter what you think about Biden, the election is over and he is the Vice-President. If you expect those of us who voted for him to defend him every time you decide to post a video of him saying something wrong, forget it. We have better things to do. When George Bush was president we were not happy but we survived it. Now its your turn.

It wouldn't be old news if it was addressed instead of ignoring his obvious incompetency as you liberals do. Notice the post wasn't even addressed until I said something about the sneakers which proves it was being read and. ignored. Biden almost single handily caused the crash of the airline industry with his ridiculous comment. Yes the election is over so why do Libs keep after Palin? Biden has made more gaffes than she did by far. So you think his comment was responsible? Obviously you missed the first two videos. Why don't you address Biden's 5 deferments during Vietnam for "childhood asthma" even though he was able to play HS football?

[HighlandWarrior]

Are you out of your mind? How would any of the poor people know how much Michelle Obama paid for her sneakers that you claim she was flaunting in front of them? It's not anyone's business what she wears or how much her clothes cost any more that it was anyone's business what Hillary, Nancy, Jackie, or any other first lady wore! If Cindy Mc Cain had become first lady would you have expected her to begin shopping at Target or J. Crew? No, you certainly would not. I don't know what is motivating these ridiculous attacks against Mrs. Obama but I am damn tired of them.

"Are you out of your mind?" Going personal huh. If a Republican had wore 540.00 sneakers to feed the homeless you would be saying she was out of touch.

[chrissy]

"Are you out of your mind?" Going personal huh. If a Republican had wore 540.00 sneakers to feed the homeless you would be saying she was out of touch.

either way, it would still be PETTY & TRIVIAL!! The deed should be forefront not what the person is wearing. How utterly ridiculous is that? Only ultra petty people, and the lowest of the neoconservative republicans would stoop that low, to notice her shoes. It is why they are so out of touch and no one other than haters want to be associated with them.

[chrissy]

It wouldn't be old news if it was addressed instead of ignoring his obvious incompetency as you liberals do. Notice the post wasn't even addressed until I said something about the sneakers which proves it was being read and. ignored. Biden almost single handily caused the crash of the airline industry with his ridiculous comment. Yes the election is over so why do Libs keep after Palin? Biden has made more gaffes than she did by far. So you think his comment was responsible? Obviously you missed the first two videos. Why don't you address Biden's 5 deferments during Vietnam for "childhood asthma" even though he was able to play HS football?

"you liberals?" Regardless, of what neocons think of Biden, he is Vice President! So, your complaints about him, are as moot as your complaints about President Obama. Attempts to change the focus of American voters that voted for the Obama/Biden ticket, is not working. Unlike, most neocons they can distinguish facts from trivial b/s.

[HighlandWarrior]

either way, it would still be PETTY & TRIVIAL!! The deed should be forefront not what the person is wearing. How utterly ridiculous is that? Only ultra petty people, and the lowest of the neoconservative republicans would stoop that low, to notice her shoes. It is why they are so out of touch and no one other than haters want to be associated with them.

The problem is that one paints them self as a "regular Joe or Jane" than employs a Hollywood Decorator to the Stars to design the White House Presidential living quarters and says they were inexpensive clothing then sports a pair of sneakers that costs more than most people's whole wardrobe. I'd have no problem with a pair of expensive shoes worn in the proper setting.

I would have hired a starving up an coming inner city designer to do the living quarters. This would have been cheaper and given the guy/gal a name for them self. I would not have worn an expensive pair of sneakers to feed the needy to rub in what I have an they don't. But that is just me. I would be very conscious of what I did having so much influence as a President, First lady, Vice President during a recession. Biden should have also known that his words could have made an economic disaster worse because of the power of the office.

[Redv14]

It wouldn't be old news if it was addressed instead of ignoring his obvious incompetency as you liberals do. Notice the post wasn't even addressed until I said something about the sneakers which proves it was being read and. ignored. Biden almost single handily caused the crash of the airline industry with his ridiculous comment. Yes the election is over so why do Libs keep after Palin? Biden has made more gaffes than she did by far. So you think his comment was responsible? Obviously you missed the first two videos. Why don't you address Biden's 5 deferments during Vietnam for "childhood asthma" even though he was able to play HS football?

None of these things are relevant now. If Biden received deferments during Vietnam there's nothing I can do about it now. Most of the elected officals in this country have probably used their position or that of those they know to get special treatment or privileges. That is not a secret and most voters are well aware that members of both parties are guilty of this. You seem to want to play a tit for tat game. If you want to keep a score card of Biden or Obama gaffes go right ahead. I am not interested in playing your game.

[chrissy]

The problem is that one paints them self as a "regular Joe or Jane" than employs a Hollywood Decorator to the Stars to design the White House Presidential living quarters and says they were inexpensive clothing then sports a pair of sneakers that costs more than most people's whole wardrobe. I'd have no problem with a pair of expensive shoes worn in the proper setting.

I would have hired a starving up an coming inner city designer to do the living quarters. This would have been cheaper and given the guy/gal a name for them self. I would not have worn an expensive pair of sneakers to feed the needy to rub in what I have an they don't. But that is just me. I would be very conscious of what I did having so much influence as a President, First lady, Vice President during a recession. Biden should have also known that his words could have made an economic disaster worse because of the power of the office.

I disagree! If the majority of the American voters had a real problem with anything you have mentioned, we would have heard that by now. People are focused on what is happening to this country, not trivial b/s. Neocons are famous for pulling at scabs until their bloody. They can continue to practice the insanity of the doing the same thing over and over, but most folks consider it pathetic. I sure do~:(

[Redv14]

"Are you out of your mind?" Going personal huh. If a Republican had wore 540.00 sneakers to feed the homeless you would be saying she was out of touch.

I don't care what Republicans wear! I am 60 years old and have never cared what Republicans or Democrats wore. I never will care either!

[chrissy]

I don't care what Republicans wear! I am 60 years old and have never cared what Republicans or Democrats wore. I never will care either!

LOL! Redv14, most sane folks do not care what Republicans, neocons, or Democrats wear. :D The party of "no plan" specializes in trivial distractions.

[graceland]

If people would look more for important issue instead of petty things like the price of shoes, this country would be in better shape ,let's focus on those issues, we all know that rich people will do as they please with their money,
some people might be a little jealous,but personally if i were rich i would never buy shoes that expensive i'm always look for a bargain:)

[chrissy]

I happen to think Michelle is pretty awesome and will be a great first lady. I just thought she made mistake.

example of what "I" perceive to be a backhanded compliment. You say you think Michelle is "pretty awesome," but.. Shouldn't it be about what makes her "awesome," and not what she wears. I think it would be hypocritical of her to dress down to help poor people, knowing full well she's not poor. In my opinion, it's the fact that she shows compassion for those less priviledged by trying to give back, that should matter. She appears to be the type of person that would gladly give those shoes to someone less fortunate. Of course, they would have to wear the same shoe size, or the neocons would jump all over that too, as being insincere. Maybe it's just me..that sees it this way.:confused:

[Sadanie]

example of what "I" perceive to be a backhanded compliment. You say you think Michelle is "pretty awesome," but.. Shouldn't it be about what makes her "awesome," and not what she wears. I think it would be hypocritical of her to dress down to help poor people, knowing full well she's not poor. In my opinion, it's the fact that she shows compassion for those less priviledged by trying to give back, that should matter. She appears to be the type of person that would gladly give those shoes to someone less fortunate. Of course, they would have to wear the same shoe size, or the neocons would jump all over that too, as being insincere. Maybe it's just me..that sees it this way.:confused:


It may just be a coincidence, but I see it the same way you do! How strange!

[Redv14]

I happen to think Michelle is pretty awesome and will be a great first lady. I just thought she made mistake.

She made a mistake because she wore expensive shoes, huh? Well, it would have been wonderful if the only mistake George Bush had made while in the Oval Office could have been wearing the wrong freaking shoes!

[TRUTHER/FREEDOM FIGHTER]

She made a mistake because she wore expensive shoes, huh? Well, it would have been wonderful if the only mistake George Bush had made while in the Oval Office could have been wearing the wrong freaking shoes!

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY, WHO CARES ABOUT SHOES. AND WHY THE HELL DO PEOPLE AUTOMATICALLY START THROWING INSULTS AT THE BIG w. JUST BECAUSE YOUR TALKING ABOUT OBAMA.. THE FACT IS, THEY BOTH SUCK. SO QUIT BITCHIN, YOU WILL NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS FIX THE PROBLEMS OF SOCIETY, IF YOU KEEP ARGUING ABOUT ****************ING SHOES. ALSO WITH THIS OVERPOWERING GOVERNMENT OF OURS THAT IS SATANIC TO SAY THE LEAST. ITS RUN BY GLOBAL ELITIST, AND OLD NAZIS LIKE ROCKEFELLER, AND THE BILDERBURGS. WAKE THE MASSES, WATCH THE OBAMA DECEPTION AND FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOMS, WE WOULD BE NO WHERE WITHOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT!!!!!!

[Sadanie]

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY, WHO CARES ABOUT SHOES. AND WHY THE HELL DO PEOPLE AUTOMATICALLY START THROWING INSULTS AT THE BIG w. JUST BECAUSE YOUR TALKING ABOUT OBAMA.. THE FACT IS, THEY BOTH SUCK. SO QUIT BITCHIN, YOU WILL NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS FIX THE PROBLEMS OF SOCIETY, IF YOU KEEP ARGUING ABOUT ****************ING SHOES. ALSO WITH THIS OVERPOWERING GOVERNMENT OF OURS THAT IS SATANIC TO SAY THE LEAST. ITS RUN BY GLOBAL ELITIST, AND OLD NAZIS LIKE ROCKEFELLER, AND THE BILDERBURGS. WAKE THE MASSES, WATCH THE OBAMA DECEPTION AND FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOMS, WE WOULD BE NO WHERE WITHOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT!!!!!!


You are obviously free to express your opinion. So am I.
I believe that President Obama is a different kind of politician, and that his intentions are good. He may not be successful in accomplishing his vision, but at this time, and after his first 100 days, I am more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
And calling me "blind, or dumb, or a sheep" will not change my opinion at this time.
Now, if in the next 3 or so years, President Obama demonstrates that he is NOT accomplishing his promises and is not moving toward his vision, I may change my mind. But today, and tomorrow, I will be supporting our President. . .no matter what name you might call me (Or him).
Just remember that insults and personal attacks are not allowed in this forum.

[TRUTHER/FREEDOM FIGHTER]

you are obviously free to express your opinion. So am i.
I believe that president obama is a different kind of politician, and that his intentions are good. He may not be successful in accomplishing his vision, but at this time, and after his first 100 days, i am more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
And calling me "blind, or dumb, or a sheep" will not change my opinion at this time.
Now, if in the next 3 or so years, president obama demonstrates that he is not accomplishing his promises and is not moving toward his vision, i may change my mind. But today, and tomorrow, i will be supporting our president. . .no matter what name you might call me (or him).
Just remember that insults and personal attacks are not allowed in this forum.

just research into it, look at facts. Infowars.com is not biased, they provide facts, and a wealth of information. Its empowering for you, because you start to learn how this country is truly run. Not by obama, or bush. Paid actors. Trust me, behind the curtain sits an old dusty aging rockefeller type nazi, who's dream is the new world order that is quickly coming of age.

In this weeks info from infowars is... Youtube suspended the alex jones channell due to the fact that he called the white house to tell them we are not going to take anymore of your lying down to the bilderburgs, and global elite banksters. So they shut off his account. How you ask? Because google owns youtube, and google is run by members of the council on foriegn relations. A great treasonous mix of the bilderburgs subjects... And it goes like that for all the major companies you know in the us. Like how time warner owns cnn. Who owns time warner? Well general electric of course. And what do they do? They are apart of the vastly forever growing military industrial complex that builds helicopters, and engines for our military. Sound like you wanna pay attention to what cnn tells you????????

[Sadanie]

just research into it, look at facts. Infowars.com is not biased, they provide facts, and a wealth of information. Its empowering for you, because you start to learn how this country is truly run. Not by obama, or bush. Paid actors. Trust me, behind the curtain sits an old dusty aging rockefeller type nazi, who's dream is the new world order that is quickly coming of age.

In this weeks info from infowars is... Youtube suspended the alex jones channell due to the fact that he called the white house to tell them we are not going to take anymore of your lying down to the bilderburgs, and global elite banksters. So they shut off his account. How you ask? Because google owns youtube, and google is run by members of the council on foriegn relations. A great treasonous mix of the bilderburgs subjects... And it goes like that for all the major companies you know in the us. Like how time warner owns cnn. Who owns time warner? Well general electric of course. And what do they do? They are apart of the vastly forever growing military industrial complex that builds helicopters, and engines for our military. Sound like you wanna pay attention to what cnn tells you????????

It sounds like you are doing a lot of research, and this is really good and appreciated. However, it would be helpful and interesting to know who you believe in. . .if anyone or anything.
I am always a little sceptical of people so determine to bring dow everything, to fight the status quo, but with no specific plan to fill the void. Any idea?

[TRUTHER/FREEDOM FIGHTER]

it sounds like you are doing a lot of research, and this is really good and appreciated. However, it would be helpful and interesting to know who you believe in. . .if anyone or anything.
I am always a little sceptical of people so determine to bring dow everything, to fight the status quo, but with no specific plan to fill the void. Any idea?

i really wouldnt condone bringing down the system, but the system is corrupt at the highest of levels, they own you on paper. Honestly, the first thing would be to either, abolish, or audit the fedreal reserve. Which is not federal by the way, its privately owned, and it prints all of our money, and is basiclly ruuning our countries debt. That is, making it impossible to ever get out of. We pay interests, on the debts of our grandfathers, who were dooped into this system. The federal reserve came about in 1913, under woodrow wilsons admin. He later apologized for allowing these "elite bankers to rob us blind, its my fault, and i am sorry"

[Sadanie]

i really wouldnt condone bringing down the system, but the system is corrupt at the highest of levels, they own you on paper. Honestly, the first thing would be to either, abolish, or audit the fedreal reserve. Which is not federal by the way, its privately owned, and it prints all of our money, and is basiclly ruuning our countries debt. That is, making it impossible to ever get out of. We pay interests, on the debts of our grandfathers, who were dooped into this system. The federal reserve came about in 1913, under woodrow wilsons admin. He later apologized for allowing these "elite bankers to rob us blind, its my fault, and i am sorry"

I agree with you that the Federal Reserve seems to be a "double jeopardy" establishment. I am not an experienced economist, but I do have an economic degree, and I am not totally unaware of the oxymorons in our financial system.
Yes, paying interest on prior debts may not be very constructive, but the fact is that these interests are only a partial repayment of debts. . .with the devaluation over the years, the interests are far from beiAnng as "traumatic" then paying the full bill would have been years ago.
And as in everything, it doesn't only matter what we pay. . .but what we get for what we pay. For example, so many people are upset about taxes. Well, if we pay tax to supprt corporate welfare, or offshore tax cut for big business. . .that is a waste. But if we pay tax for items that benefit the majority of the people in America (i.e., infrastructure develoopment and/or maintenance, better education that gets us to a competitive level in the world wide scene, and health care that benefits everyone), I would say that taxes are money well spent!
By the way, just to give you basic information where I stand: I do not believe in "trickle down" economics. I believe in "trickle up economics." I do not believe that stock market is a good measure of our economic health. I believe that stock market had been overpriced for years, based on nothing factual, but on "psychological factors" that, once they disappeared, brought the stock market down. I do not believe that the 14,000 level is sustainable (at least not in the next 5 years or so), and that the "crash" was in fact a healthy return to more "factual" assessment of the real value of stocks.

[TRUTHER/FREEDOM FIGHTER]

i agree with you that the federal reserve seems to be a "double jeopardy" establishment. I am not an experienced economist, but i do have an economic degree, and i am not totally unaware of the oxymorons in our financial system.
Yes, paying interest on prior debts may not be very constructive, but the fact is that these interests are only a partial repayment of debts. . .with the devaluation over the years, the interests are far from beianng as "traumatic" then paying the full bill would have been years ago.
And as in everything, it doesn't only matter what we pay. . .but what we get for what we pay. For example, so many people are upset about taxes. Well, if we pay tax to supprt corporate welfare, or offshore tax cut for big business. . .that is a waste. But if we pay tax for items that benefit the majority of the people in america (i.e., infrastructure develoopment and/or maintenance, better education that gets us to a competitive level in the world wide scene, and health care that benefits everyone), i would say that taxes are money well spent!
By the way, just to give you basic information where i stand: I do not believe in "trickle down" economics. I believe in "trickle up economics." i do not believe that stock market is a good measure of our economic health. I believe that stock market had been overpriced for years, based on nothing factual, but on "psychological factors" that, once they disappeared, brought the stock market down. I do not believe that the 14,000 level is sustainable (at least not in the next 5 years or so), and that the "crash" was in fact a healthy return to more "factual" assessment of the real value of stocks.

well, great assessment, but i dont believe in that system. Its too far corrupt, it cant and wont work. Kinda like the tax system. You couldnt print the whole tax code, or ever in a lifetime, read the whole thing an fully understand it. Its use is for big corps. To get away with stealing, in oh so many words, they get away with everything. While the wealthier stay wealthy, the rest will pay for it all. Including the upper middle class, where the new taxes are focusing, where obama said he would no longer tax the poor, he just put more taxes on the rich. Not the wealthy. Rich is millions, wealthy is rockefeller. And the stock market is a distraction full of numbers and colors all for the eyes. Flashy numbers for people to goggle at, ************, money. If we intend to change anything, it would be bringing it all back to basics. Take away the complications that cause headaches, and simplfy. If the average man cant understand the stock market, or tax code, how can he ever attempt to prosper in a so called free nation....

[Sadanie]

well, great assessment, but i dont believe in that system. Its too far corrupt, it cant and wont work. Kinda like the tax system. You couldnt print the whole tax code, or ever in a lifetime, read the whole thing an fully understand it. Its use is for big corps. To get away with stealing, in oh so many words, they get away with everything. While the wealthier stay wealthy, the rest will pay for it all. Including the upper middle class, where the new taxes are focusing, where obama said he would no longer tax the poor, he just put more taxes on the rich. Not the wealthy. Rich is millions, wealthy is rockefeller. And the stock market is a distraction full of numbers and colors all for the eyes. Flashy numbers for people to goggle at, ************, money. If we intend to change anything, it would be bringing it all back to basics. Take away the complications that cause headaches, and simplfy. If the average man cant understand the stock market, or tax code, how can he ever attempt to prosper in a so called free nation....

I don't disagree with any of your assessment. However, if this leads to a "fair tax' plea, I have many concerns. So, before I engage in a lot of unworthy debate re: fair tax, I'd like to know if this is where you're heading.

[TRUTHER/FREEDOM FIGHTER]

i don't disagree with any of your assessment. However, if this leads to a "fair tax' plea, i have many concerns. So, before i engage in a lot of unworthy debate re: Fair tax, i'd like to know if this is where you're heading.

sorry i am not familar with "fair tax". Could you explain. But i just think it should be alot more simple, so that there is a system relative to what people can comprehend.

[Sadanie]

sorry i am not familar with "fair tax". Could you explain. But i just think it should be alot more simple, so that there is a system relative to what people can comprehend.

I am not a specialist in tax law. However, for what I understand, the "fair tax" would take away all federal tax, and state tax, and replace it with an increase in ALL sales tax. The principle would be that, you would only pay tax on what you purchase, therefore, you could actually control how much tax you pay, and people buying more would pay more tax.

The problem I have with this is that, most low income people (even lower middle class) probably spend 100% of their monthly (or annual) income on purchasing goods that are necessary for their survival (i.e., food, health care, gas, cars, TV, electricity, etc.. .) and do not have any "disposable income." Which mean that they would pay tax on 100% of what they make.

However, as you go up the earning ladder, the ability to "invest" or "save" a portion of your earnings increase. In that case, you would still only pay tax on what you "purchase" but not on what you "save or invest." Which means that you may pay tax on, let's say, 85% of your income.

Now look at the wealthy: They too need to purchase food, electricity, gas, and health care. This may take about 30% of their earnings. The other 70% of their earnings would basically be tax free, or they may decide to take a trip to Europe, or the Bahamas, and purchase expensive clothes in Paris, instead of Ralph Lauren in New York, therefore they wouldn't pay tax on the "Paris" clothes (at least not to the US!).

They would either save or invest the rest of their (now tax free) money, and get richer. While the lower class would NEVER have a chance to get ahead because every penny they make would go toward "survival spending" and be taxed!

Some people may call that "fair tax." I call that "stupid tax!"

[TRUTHER/FREEDOM FIGHTER]

i am not a specialist in tax law. However, for what i understand, the "fair tax" would take away all federal tax, and state tax, and replace it with an increase in all sales tax. The principle would be that, you would only pay tax on what you purchase, therefore, you could actually control how much tax you pay, and people buying more would pay more tax.

The problem i have with this is that, most low income people (even lower middle class) probably spend 100% of their monthly (or annual) income on purchasing goods that are necessary for their survival (i.e., food, health care, gas, cars, tv, electricity, etc.. .) and do not have any "disposable income." which mean that they would pay tax on 100% of what they make.

However, as you go up the earning ladder, the ability to "invest" or "save" a portion of your earnings increase. In that case, you would still only pay tax on what you "purchase" but not on what you "save or invest." which means that you may pay tax on, let's say, 85% of your income.

Now look at the wealthy: They too need to purchase food, electricity, gas, and health care. This may take about 30% of their earnings. The other 70% of their earnings would basically be tax free, or they may decide to take a trip to europe, or the bahamas, and purchase expensive clothes in paris, instead of ralph lauren in new york, therefore they wouldn't pay tax on the "paris" clothes (at least not to the us!).

They would either save or invest the rest of their (now tax free) money, and get richer. While the lower class would never have a chance to get ahead because every penny they make would go toward "survival spending" and be taxed!

Some people may call that "fair tax." i call that "stupid tax!"

ok, well i have never heard of that before, and i agree with you. I mean more of a grassroots type tax. Take it back before all the complications. To simplfy, is to justify. Compclications cause problems, thats why it just keeps growing so as to distraught anyone who dares question its authority...

[Sadanie]

ok, well i have never heard of that before, and i agree with you. I mean more of a grassroots type tax. Take it back before all the complications. To simplfy, is to justify. Compclications cause problems, thats why it just keeps growing so as to distraught anyone who dares question its authority...


What I believe (and obviously it is just an opinion!), is that it doesn't matter so much HOW MUCH tax one pays. . .it is WHAT IS DONE with the tax!
for example, the European countries pay a lot more tax than we do (probably an average of 35% to 55%). But what they get out of it is amazing!
You will not find a bridge (even 200 year old bridge) fall down for lack of maintenance. The highways are extremely well maintained. Basic health care is available to all and . . if you want an additional private insurance for more "specific" or "elective" type of medical or surgical care, you can pay for that privately. Every family gets a monthly child allowance (twice a year that allowance is double to assure that the family can afford school clothes and vacation for the child), unemployment is not limited to 9 month, 18 months or even 3 years. . .but keeps on going until the person finds a job (and employers receive government incentives to hire unemployed people) and unemployed people have access to free training and a "job bank" that allows them to supplement their unemployment benefits if they are willing to take occasional, menial jobs (i.e., house cleaning for the elderlies), and all schools, including catholic schools are free through 12th grade. For those interested in higher studies (universities and such), many generous scholarships are available.
Public transportation is so developped that owning a car is not a necessity to hold most position, and anyone over the age of 60 travels FREE on most public transportation (bus etc. ) and at very low cost (about $4.00 per day) on rail roads, even for long trips.
Basically, the reason Europe has not faired as badly as the US in this worldwide economic crisis is because of this extensive "safety net." This is also why the Europeans head of states were not willing to put as much stimulus money in their economy as President Obama was. . . they already had most of the "stimulus spending" in place for the lat 40 years.
I have heard a lot of arguments that "business already pays more tax in the US than they do any place else in the world." Well this may be true if one considers ONLY the taxes. . .but if one considers the employment taxes and the employment regulations in Europe. . . it costs a lot more in "fringe benefits" in Europe than it does in the States. . .so the taxes are pretty much the same, maybe even higher in Europe.
So. . .I will restate my point: It is not how much tax you pay. . . it is what you get out of the tax you pay.

[TRUTHER/FREEDOM FIGHTER]

what i believe (and obviously it is just an opinion!), is that it doesn't matter so much how much tax one pays. . .it is what is done with the tax!
For example, the european countries pay a lot more tax than we do (probably an average of 35% to 55%). But what they get out of it is amazing!
You will not find a bridge (even 200 year old bridge) fall down for lack of maintenance. The highways are extremely well maintained. Basic health care is available to all and . . If you want an additional private insurance for more "specific" or "elective" type of medical or surgical care, you can pay for that privately. Every family gets a monthly child allowance (twice a year that allowance is double to assure that the family can afford school clothes and vacation for the child), unemployment is not limited to 9 month, 18 months or even 3 years. . .but keeps on going until the person finds a job (and employers receive government incentives to hire unemployed people) and unemployed people have access to free training and a "job bank" that allows them to supplement their unemployment benefits if they are willing to take occasional, menial jobs (i.e., house cleaning for the elderlies), and all schools, including catholic schools are free through 12th grade. For those interested in higher studies (universities and such), many generous scholarships are available.
Public transportation is so developped that owning a car is not a necessity to hold most position, and anyone over the age of 60 travels free on most public transportation (bus etc. ) and at very low cost (about $4.00 per day) on rail roads, even for long trips.
Basically, the reason europe has not faired as badly as the us in this worldwide economic crisis is because of this extensive "safety net." this is also why the europeans head of states were not willing to put as much stimulus money in their economy as president obama was. . . They already had most of the "stimulus spending" in place for the lat 40 years.
I have heard a lot of arguments that "business already pays more tax in the us than they do any place else in the world." well this may be true if one considers only the taxes. . .but if one considers the employment taxes and the employment regulations in europe. . . It costs a lot more in "fringe benefits" in europe than it does in the states. . .so the taxes are pretty much the same, maybe even higher in europe.
So. . .i will restate my point: It is not how much tax you pay. . . It is what you get out of the tax you pay.

i agree with that, but you cant turn around capitalism with spending. And not to rain on the european nations, but even the uk is experiencing the thought police, and the more and more control of freedom of speech. Which is non existant in that nation now, they are closing in on a new era, oh i mean an old one for them. Back to the stone age, no thoughts allowed unless granted to say so, and only with supervison. People over there are being arrested for being opinionated, like disagreeing with gays, and not wanting to work with people who speak a different language. Kids being arrested in school and called racist because they cant understand the chinese students.... Socialism at work...1984 is a real prospect for our near future, including censoring of the internet.... You see, by controlling that much of your life, they in turn can do so much more, thats why the government should be downsized, not praised.

[Sadanie]

i agree with that, but you cant turn around capitalism with spending. And not to rain on the european nations, but even the uk is experiencing the thought police, and the more and more control of freedom of speech. Which is non existant in that nation now, they are closing in on a new era, oh i mean an old one for them. Back to the stone age, no thoughts allowed unless granted to say so, and only with supervison. People over there are being arrested for being opinionated, like disagreeing with gays, and not wanting to work with people who speak a different language. Kids being arrested in school and called racist because they cant understand the chinese students.... Socialism at work...1984 is a real prospect for our near future, including censoring of the internet.... You see, by controlling that much of your life, they in turn can do so much more, thats why the government should be downsized, not praised.


I respectfully disagree. I have lived in France, Belgium, and England. and spend extended time periods, every years in Portugal and Italy. I also have lived in Colorado, Pennsylvania, California, and South Carolina.
If you were to live in any of the European countries I have listed, you would find out that people there are actually a lot more verbal about their politica and religious views, and their criticisms of their administration, as we are here in the United states. It is true that Portugal had a repressive regime about 45 years ago. . .it is long gone. There is MORE, not less immigration into the European countries than there is in United States and, yes, there are cultural clashes between cutures that are very different (i.e., the muslim with the overwhelming Christian catholic majority in Belgiuma and France). However, all these clashes are in the open, and people do not hesitate to resort to strikes to make their desire and their opinions known (actually, they are doing it to an extreme!).
There is NO limit on freedom of speech. . .almost to a fault for what I am concern! There is NO limit on religious views, even in schools. . .and the government subsidises not just the laic schools, but also Christians and (increasingly) Muslim schools.
I am not sure where you get your information re: European governments impeding freedom of speech, but this is absolutely wrong! In fact it would be almost impossible to control the freedom of speech in Europe because, contrary to the U. S., each country has access to all the other European Countries' radio stations and TV stations.
For example, my sister lives in Belgium in the Flemish side. She only speaks French, but her husband and children speak both Flemish and French. Most of her children and all her grandchildren also speak English and some also speak German and Italian. Their television gives them access to 2 Francophone belgian stations, 2 Flemish Belgian stations, 4 French stations, 3 German stations, 3 English stations, 2 Italian stations, and 1 Spanish stations. In addition, they receive CNN.
Because they have daily access to all these TV channels, they get the opinions (political, economics, etc. . .) of ALL the countries in Europe!
We do not even get a Canadian station or a Mexican station! And although we get BBC, it is a version that is "adapted" for the American public!

You are very wrong on this. But I realize that my saying so will obviously not change your mind!

[chrissy]

I respectfully disagree. I have lived in France, Belgium, and England. and spend extended time periods, every years in Portugal and Italy. I also have lived in Colorado, Pennsylvania, California, and South Carolina.
If you were to live in any of the European countries I have listed, you would find out that people there are actually a lot more verbal about their politica and religious views, and their criticisms of their administration, as we are here in the United states. It is true that Portugal had a repressive regime about 45 years ago. . .it is long gone. There is MORE, not less immigration into the European countries than there is in United States and, yes, there are cultural clashes between cutures that are very different (i.e., the muslim with the overwhelming Christian catholic majority in Belgiuma and France). However, all these clashes are in the open, and people do not hesitate to resort to strikes to make their desire and their opinions known (actually, they are doing it to an extreme!).
There is NO limit on freedom of speech. . .almost to a fault for what I am concern! There is NO limit on religious views, even in schools. . .and the government subsidises not just the laic schools, but also Christians and (increasingly) Muslim schools.
I am not sure where you get your information re: European governments impeding freedom of speech, but this is absolutely wrong! In fact it would be almost impossible to control the freedom of speech in Europe because, contrary to the U. S., each country has access to all the other European Countries' radio stations and TV stations.
For example, my sister lives in Belgium in the Flemish side. She only speaks French, but her husband and children speak both Flemish and French. Most of her children and all her grandchildren also speak English and some also speak German and Italian. Their television gives them access to 2 Francophone belgian stations, 2 Flemish Belgian stations, 4 French stations, 3 German stations, 3 English stations, 2 Italian stations, and 1 Spanish stations. In addition, they receive CNN.
Because they have daily access to all these TV channels, they get the opinions (political, economics, etc. . .) of ALL the countries in Europe!
We do not even get a Canadian station or a Mexican station! And although we get BBC, it is a version that is "adapted" for the American public!

You are very wrong on this. But I realize that my saying so will obviously not change your mind!

Sadanie, thank you for sharing your experiences with us, it helps me to get a glimpse of life beyond our boundaries from someone who has been there. :)

[Awenasa]

With the fair tax they have taken into consideration those in the poverty level or lower income level where they would get a prebate on the amount of taxes they have paid on goods during the year. This would be rebated monthly.

[Sadanie]

With the fair tax they have taken into consideration those in the poverty level or lower income level where they would get a prebate on the amount of taxes they have paid on goods during the year. This would be rebated monthly.


Thank you for the information. That would resolve some of the problem at the "lower" end of the spectrum. How do we get the "higher end" to pay "fair" taxes? Shopping in Paris or London is very attractive. . .especially with "tax free" shopping!

[HighlandWarrior]

In terms of GDP (millions of USD)
USA = 1st
Japan = 2nd
China = 3rd
Germany 4th
France = 5th
UK = 6th
Italy = 7th
Belgium = 20th

[Sadanie]

In terms of GDP (millions of USD)
USA = 1st
Japan = 2nd
China = 3rd
Germany 4th
France = 5th
UK = 6th
Italy = 7th
Belgium = 20th


This is very interesting. Now, could you also list the GDP in terms of the population of each country (or GDP per capita)???? This may be an even more interesting and revealing statistic.


Country GDP - per capita
1 Luxembourg $ 68,800
2 Equatorial Guinea $ 50,200
3 United Arab Emirates $ 49,700
4 Norway $ 47,800
5 Ireland $ 43,600
6 United States $ 43,500
7 Andorra $ 38,800
8 Iceland $ 38,100
9 Denmark $ 37,000
10 Austria $ 35,500
11 Canada $ 35,200
12 San Marino $ 34,100
13 Switzerland $ 33,600
14 Japan $ 33,100
15 Australia $ 32,900
16 Finland $ 32,800
17 Belgium $ 31,800
18 Netherlands $ 31,700
19 Sweden $ 31,600
20 Germany $ 31,400
21 United Kingdom $ 31,400
22 Singapore $ 30,900
23 France $ 30,100
24 Monaco $ 30,000
25 Italy $ 29,700
26 Qatar $ 29,400
27 Spain $ 27,000
28 Israel $ 26,200
29 New Zealand $ 26,000
30 Brunei $ 25,600
31 Bahrain $ 25,300
32 Liechtenstein $ 25,000
33 Korea, South $ 24,200
34 Greece $ 23,500
35 Slovenia $ 23,400
36 Cyprus $ 22,700
37 Czech Republic $ 21,600
38 Kuwait $ 21,600
39 Bahamas, The $ 21,300
40 Malta $ 20,300
41 Trinidad and Tobago $ 19,700
42 Estonia $ 19,600
43 Portugal $ 19,100
44 Barbados $ 18,200
45 Slovakia $ 17,700
46 Hungary $ 17,300
47 Latvia $ 15,400
48 Lithuania $ 15,100
49 Argentina $ 15,000
50 Oman $ 14,100
51 Poland $ 14,100
52 Saudi Arabia $ 13,800
53 Mauritius $ 13,500
54 Croatia $ 13,200
55 South Africa $ 13,000
56 Chile $ 12,700
57 Libya $ 12,700
58 Malaysia $ 12,700
59 Russia $ 12,100
60 Costa Rica $ 12,000
61 Botswana $ 11,400
62 Antigua and Barbuda $ 10,900
63 Uruguay $ 10,700
64 Mexico $ 10,600
65 Bulgaria $ 10,400
66 Kazakhstan $ 9,100
67 Thailand $ 9,100
68 Iran $ 8,900
69 Turkey $ 8,900
70 Turkmenistan $ 8,900
71 Romania $ 8,800
72 Brazil $ 8,600
73 Tunisia $ 8,600
74 Belize $ 8,400
75 Colombia $ 8,400
76 Macedonia $ 8,200
77 Saint Kitts and Nevis $ 8,200
78 Dominican Republic $ 8,000
79 Panama $ 7,900
80 Belarus $ 7,800
81 Seychelles $ 7,800
82 Algeria $ 7,700
83 China $ 7,600
84 Ukraine $ 7,600
85 Palau $ 7,600
86 Namibia $ 7,400
87 Azerbaijan $ 7,300
88 Gabon $ 7,200
89 Cyprus $ 7,135
90 Suriname $ 7,100
91 Venezuela $ 6,900
92 Peru $ 6,400
93 Fiji $ 6,100
94 Cape Verde $ 6,000
95 Albania $ 5,600
96 Bosnia and Herzegovina $ 5,500
97 Lebanon $ 5,500
98 Swaziland $ 5,500
99 Armenia $ 5,400
100 Nauru $ 5,000
101 Philippines $ 5,000

Sometime arrogance just comes from poor information. It is amazing how numbers can be "spinned" to show supremacy in almost anything. . .but cannot stand closer scrutiny.

[HighlandWarrior]

Another half insult. You are very good with your personal insults always leaving a grey area. Amazing how PRIDE IN ONE'S COUNTRY is interpreted as "arrogance".

If you were too add the first place and the sixth place you still get a very high rating for the US and for Capitalism. No spin needed. The US still rates higher even in your info than the countries you listed as an example that you have lived in.

[Sadanie]

Another half insult. You are very good with your personal insults always leaving a grey area. Amazing how PRIDE IN ONE'S COUNTRY is interpreted as "arrogance".

If you were too add the first place and the sixth place you still get a very high rating for the US and for Capitalism. No spin needed. The US still rates higher even in your info than the countries you listed as an example that you have lived in.


Why are you taking this as an insult? I provided basically the same (but more complete and more accurate) set of data you were proud to provide. And I gave this "spin" on data as an example of what leads to the type of arrogance that was so prevalent in the Bush Administration.

Pride in one's country is based on FACTUAL actions, policies, style of living, respect for human rights, honesty, caring for the majority of the people in that country.

Arrogance is a misplaced pride. Misplaced because it is based on FALSE information that are spread around (either by ignorance or with intention to deceive) and is inaccurate.
The set of data you offered (actually, I'm not sure why you chose to post it. . .didn't see any link from the previous post) would easily be interpretated by most people as "US CAPITALISM REMAINS FAR ABOVE THE REST OF THE WORLD IN TERM PROVIDING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND HEALTHY GDP FOR ALL. US CAPITALISM IS STILL AT THE TOP AND WE HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT! ALL THESE COUNTRIES WHO HAVE ADOPTED "TRICKLE UP" ECONOMIES INSTEAD OF "TRICKLE DOWN" ECONOMY OF CAPITALISM ARE STILL BEHIND!"


Well, this is false! And the second set of data I provided just demonstrate that, other form of economy are indeed very successful, and that even nations with a "social democracy' system are able to match or surpasse our "crooked" capitalist system!

I think it is important to face reality squarely. . .because if we don't it makes us complacent, and we stop believing that we need to compete, and that we need to improve, and that we are not perfect and that maybe, just maybe, we can learn something from other systems.
But I know it is difficult to face reality. Yet, the ONLY way the United States of America will stop sliding down the ladder, and will regain its full leadership accross the world is to recognize that, although life is good here (even now!), THERE IS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT!

If you think this is an insult to you, I am sorry, it is not. . .but truth sometime hurts!

[chrissy]

Why are you taking this as an insult? I provided basically the same (but more complete and more accurate) set of data you were proud to provide. And I gave this "spin" on data as an example of what leads to the type of arrogance that was so prevalent in the Bush Administration.

Pride in one's country is based on FACTUAL actions, policies, style of living, respect for human rights, honesty, caring for the majority of the people in that country.

Arrogance is a misplaced pride. Misplaced because it is based on FALSE information that are spread around (either by ignorance or with intention to deceive) and is inaccurate.
The set of data you offered (actually, I'm not sure why you chose to post it. . .didn't see any link from the previous post) would easily be interpretated by most people as "US CAPITALISM REMAINS FAR ABOVE THE REST OF THE WORLD IN TERM PROVIDING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND HEALTHY GDP FOR ALL. US CAPITALISM IS STILL AT THE TOP AND WE HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT! ALL THESE COUNTRIES WHO HAVE ADOPTED "TRICKLE UP" ECONOMIES INSTEAD OF "TRICKLE DOWN" ECONOMY OF CAPITALISM ARE STILL BEHIND!"


Well, this is false! And the second set of data I provided just demonstrate that, other form of economy are indeed very successful, and that even nations with a "social democracy' system are able to match or surpasse our "crooked" capitalist system!

I think it is important to face reality squarely. . .because if we don't it makes us complacent, and we stop believing that we need to compete, and that we need to improve, and that we are not perfect and that maybe, just maybe, we can learn something from other systems.
But I know it is difficult to face reality. Yet, the ONLY way the United States of America will stop sliding down the ladder, and will regain its full leadership accross the world is to recognize that, although life is good here (even now!), THERE IS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT!

If you think this is an insult to you, I am sorry, it is not. . .but truth sometime hurts!

Great quote.."Arrogance is misplaced pride." sooooooo true!:(

[Sadanie]

how you have completely "ignored" splendor's reply! You are entitled to your opinion, as most of us are. However, when one compares splendor's reply to yours..the hypocrisy becomes blatantly obvious to those who choose to see it. It just makes one wonder, what would have been said if Cindy McCain was the first lady. No, two wrongs, does not make it right. However, hypocrisy speaking to what they now see as hypocrisy..is ludacris!! In my opinion, the pathetic attempts from the neoconservatives to distract the American people are failing miserably. LOL!


Chrissy, you are obviously right! It is so sad that in this time of trial for our country, we have a whole section of the American people (unfortunately those who sees themselves as the most "patriotic" and "moral") spending so much energy in destroying the hope we have in our new President, and the efforts President Obama is making to bring America back from the slumps.
And the way this is done is even more depressing! It is not done by presenting real areas of concern and providing alternate solutions. . .this would be too much of a "constructive critique!" It is done by harping along and chipping along at small, meaningless details (tennis shoes, decorating of the White House, which by the way is being paid by the President, not the tax payer, and trips out of Washington to "bond" with the people). In the other hand, nothing is being said about the waste in gas and expenses of the "cross country" trip of Cantor and co.!!!! Maybe they are using bicycles to travel through the country????
The pettiness of the arguments are so below the severity of the situation we are facing. . .how can anyone truly believe that they are doing ANYONE a favor by continuing those meaningless attacks on our President and our first Lady? It takes such a small mind and such a sad, lowly heart to resort to that kind of attacks!
And this is the reason so many Republicans who are intelligent, and who are reasonable, and who are well intentionned are leaving the Republican party. . .their integrity cannot withstand the assault of these petty attacks and they do not want to have anything to do with a party that can behave that way.
Maybe, a third party will emerge from this. . . at this stage, this is my hope.

[BUSHED]

Biden Gem, see post #34, In time out for a funny Story, thread...

http://tvally.com/showthread.php?t=4898&page=4

[chrissy]

Chrissy, you are obviously right! It is so sad that in this time of trial for our country, we have a whole section of the American people (unfortunately those who sees themselves as the most "patriotic" and "moral") spending so much energy in destroying the hope we have in our new President, and the efforts President Obama is making to bring America back from the slumps.
And the way this is done is even more depressing! It is not done by presenting real areas of concern and providing alternate solutions. . .this would be too much of a "constructive critique!" It is done by harping along and chipping along at small, meaningless details (tennis shoes, decorating of the White House, which by the way is being paid by the President, not the tax payer, and trips out of Washington to "bond" with the people). In the other hand, nothing is being said about the waste in gas and expenses of the "cross country" trip of Cantor and co.!!!! Maybe they are using bicycles to travel through the country????
The pettiness of the arguments are so below the severity of the situation we are facing. . .how can anyone truly believe that they are doing ANYONE a favor by continuing those meaningless attacks on our President and our first Lady? It takes such a small mind and such a sad, lowly heart to resort to that kind of attacks!
And this is the reason so many Republicans who are intelligent, and who are reasonable, and who are well intentionned are leaving the Republican party. . .their integrity cannot withstand the assault of these petty attacks and they do not want to have anything to do with a party that can behave that way.
Maybe, a third party will emerge from this. . . at this stage, this is my hope.

Well said & I agree with every word. :)

In my opinion~
I too hope to see a "third" party immerge from this pathetic group. I sincerely hope "Young Republicans" with real ideas and solutions to problems we face as a country take control of the "walking wounded." I will eagerly support their takeover of the ol' Reich Wing Neoconservative Hate Group! There's really no other way to say it for me, they are a bunch of racist old creeps who would rather see this country fail than to allow this President the same opportunity as they did for any other.

Neocons believe that if you repeat a lie 1000 times, it becomes the truth! When that fails, they try to force feed regurgitated vomit from O'Reilly, Hannity, Limpbaugh, Coulter and the other wackos. Neocons call their mean-spiritedness, and microscopic view of this president, constructive criticism. Yet, when you remind them their "silence" of the last eight years did not go unnoticed, much like children, they point fingers at the Democats. They were just as spineless as the Dems, and sat by for eight years and did nothing to prevent this mess. America has not forgot the spinelessnes of the Democrats. But, neocons have forced the focus and spotlight on themselves, by pulling every lame game in the book. Now all of a sudden, they have become the Einstein's of today. Well, the majority of America are not buying the hype. So, what do the neocon creeps do? They stoop lower!

Neocons say nothing about the 100 Million that was raised for G.W.'s library. I would have gladly donated a "closet" and they could have put some of that money back into the economy, but no they focus on the shoes of someone at least trying to help the poor.

Neocon behavior is reminiscent of a country divided by those who refused to allow some of its citizens the most basic of their rights during the Civil Rights era. It is sad and pathetic to witness and it is no wonder there is a resurgence in the growth of hate groups! No wonder the rest of the world no longer wants to emulate us. The fact that the majority of Americans got fed up with Neocon Republican antics and tactics by voting them out, is just too much for them to bare. Instead of trying to change a real deficit within their own party, they point fingers, criticize and play the blame game. All the while this country is struggling to recover. No wonder they're a dying breed. Seriously, they can't die fast enough for me. What a disgusting, slimy, despicable bunch of hypocrites! Count me in, "guil" I no longer wish to reason with neocon fools.

And for those of you who will be quick to say my comments are not "Godly," just remember I never promised "perfection" to anyone, including you. Good-nite! :)